Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:00:12 | Watusimoto | Found this in master |
| 00:00:13 | Watusimoto | # remove after next update |
| 00:00:15 | Watusimoto | write_stats_to_database Yes |
| 00:00:20 | Watusimoto | do we remove it? |
| 00:00:26 | raptor | i don't know - that's odd |
| 00:00:46 | sam686 | i see, robots files goes elsewhere, so does the levels |
| 00:01:01 | raptor | does the windows installer need to be redone? |
| 00:01:22 | Watusimoto | I'm removing it |
| 00:01:32 | raptor | ko |
| 00:01:51 | Watusimoto | we need a db username and pw for the stats db |
| 00:01:58 | raptor | already set up |
| 00:02:03 | sam686 | abortHosting_noLevels crash |
| 00:02:06 | Watusimoto | needs to be in master.cfg |
| 00:02:20 | raptor | sam686 already added it |
| 00:02:34 | Watusimoto | which I just overwrote with the much more modern one on the old server |
| 00:02:45 | Watusimoto | I *may* be able to undo still |
| 00:03:07 | Watusimoto | no, probbaly can't |
| 00:03:11 | raptor | the master.cfg found at /home/master/bitfighter/master on the new server has it set up |
| 00:03:28 | Watusimoto | right now? |
| 00:03:33 | raptor | yes |
| 00:03:45 | raptor | as of two weeks ago or so |
| 00:04:51 | raptor | did you remember to do a release compile? |
| 00:04:59 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 00:05:05 | raptor | yay |
| 00:05:13 | raptor | because i forgot for linux.. |
| 00:05:21 | raptor | but haven't built packages yet.. |
| 00:09:22 | sam686 | windows installer error: File /r "..\..\..\resource\music\*.ogg" when i don't have any music files in it.. |
| 00:09:30 | raptor | yeah |
| 00:10:03 | Watusimoto | I commented that out |
| 00:12:46 | sam686 | I have committed and pushed a small fix: crash trying to host levels when no levels can be found. |
| 00:16:10 | | BFLogBot - Commit b1cf8a075ce9 | Author: sam8641 | Log: Fix missing levels crash |
| 00:18:20 | sam686 | got the installer working, want to see windows Bitfighter-Installer-016 ? |
| 00:20:20 | sam686 | oops, got to fix my commit for zap_dedicated |
| 00:21:12 | | BFLogBot - Commit 0e7541e1be02 | Author: sam8641 | Log: fix ZAP_DEDICATED |
| 00:31:05 | raptor | so is that short blurb at the top of the release notes OK to use? |
| 00:32:04 | sam686 | oh well, it is just a no levels trying to host that can crash, without my fix. |
| 00:32:42 | sam686 | but, editor can already display "no level dir" or similar without error |
| 00:34:46 | sam686 | what short blurb? |
| 00:35:16 | raptor | at the top here?:http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php?title=Release_Notes_016 |
| 00:35:59 | sam686 | i guess it is ok |
| 00:36:05 | raptor | Watusimoto: still awake? |
| 00:41:46 | raptor | first comment about Core: 'wonky' |
| 00:41:48 | raptor | hehe |
| 00:43:14 | Watusimoto | great |
| 00:43:49 | Watusimoto | I predict core will become the main dungeon type |
| 00:44:03 | Watusimoto | I can't figure out how to update the motd |
| 00:44:21 | Watusimoto | we have two copies of master.cfg |
| 00:44:21 | raptor | add a line at the end of master.cfg, right? |
| 00:44:27 | Watusimoto | that's one way |
| 00:44:31 | Watusimoto | the other is to reference a file |
| 00:44:34 | Watusimoto | which we're missing |
| 00:44:43 | Watusimoto | but let me try something |
| 00:46:00 | Watusimoto | the idea being that a file containing a single string is easy to upgrade via web interface |
| 00:46:17 | Watusimoto | maybe we can install ruby and I can build a quick little motd management interface |
| 00:46:56 | raptor | ha! |
| 00:47:04 | raptor | shotgun -> fly |
| 00:48:04 | Watusimoto | yes, but it would be sooo easy |
| 00:48:31 | Watusimoto | rails makes making web aps almost not too painful and gross |
| 00:48:45 | raptor | even database connecting? |
| 00:48:52 | Watusimoto | trivial |
| 00:48:57 | raptor | huh |
| 00:49:21 | Watusimoto | if you use sqlite, it is already configured when you install it |
| 00:49:38 | Watusimoto | to use other db it's a couple of lines of config |
| 00:50:08 | Watusimoto | but -- and this is important -- you have to do things The Rails Way |
| 00:50:15 | Watusimoto | or you will be eternally screwed |
| 00:50:44 | raptor | is it a strict coding style? |
| 00:50:44 | karamazovapy | from the forums: Total topics 1000 |
| 00:50:57 | Watusimoto | no, but a strict method of organization |
| 00:51:05 | Watusimoto | everything in its place |
| 00:51:23 | Watusimoto | that's why it's so painless -- convention over configuration |
| 00:51:31 | Watusimoto | follow the convention, no configuration |
| 00:51:41 | Watusimoto | deviate from the path, and it' |
| 00:51:56 | Watusimoto | s thousands of spiny demons poking you with their tridents |
| 00:52:04 | karamazovapy | in case folks hadn't noticed, the link from bitfighter.org is to bitfigter.net |
| 00:52:18 | Watusimoto | what?? |
| 00:52:35 | raptor | what |
| 00:52:42 | karamazovapy | if you go to bitfighter.org, there's a typo directing you to bitfigter.net |
| 00:53:43 | raptor | i'm still not seeing it |
| 00:53:51 | karamazovapy | Bitfighter is Moving |
| 00:53:52 | karamazovapy | The Bitfighter servers are moving. If you are seeing this message, you are still at the old site. The new site is up right now at http://bitfigter.net. |
| 00:54:18 | Watusimoto | ah well, think of it as a memory test |
| 00:54:25 | Watusimoto | sory, and intelligence test |
| 00:56:28 | raptor | maybe your bitfigher.org hasn't be updated, karamazovapy |
| 00:56:41 | karamazovapy | maybe it hasn't be updated |
| 00:56:51 | Watusimoto | ok, link should be fixed |
| 00:57:20 | Watusimoto | so looks liek the master is running in the master folder, not the exe folder |
| 00:58:07 | Watusimoto | if that's the case, we should delete the exe folder so I don;t get confused |
| 00:58:26 | raptor | master is running from exe using config in master/ folder |
| 00:58:38 | Watusimoto | interesting |
| 00:58:44 | Watusimoto | ok |
| 00:59:39 | raptor | the master.cfg is all set up to use the proper database/etc in master/ folder |
| 01:00:00 | raptor | it was only done this way because we had no former knowledge of how you did in the past |
| 01:00:15 | Watusimoto | ok, deleted copies of master.cfg in exe folder, created symlink to the one in master folder |
| 01:00:37 | Watusimoto | the past is irrelevant |
| 01:00:39 | Watusimoto | onward |
| 01:00:41 | Watusimoto | forward |
| 01:01:03 | Watusimoto | though it always seemed to me the only logical place for the cfg file would be inthe exe folder |
| 01:01:26 | Watusimoto | well gentlemen... I think we;re done |
| 01:01:32 | raptor | wait |
| 01:01:46 | raptor | the blurb at the top here: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php?title=Release_Notes_016 |
| 01:01:57 | raptor | is that ok to post to sites like happypenguin? |
| 01:02:08 | karamazovapy | I like this error message: Level too big for zone generation! (max dimension, after gridSize expansion, is 65535) |
| 01:02:21 | raptor | ha! |
| 01:02:48 | raptor | ohmygoodness an RPM was built.. |
| 01:03:31 | Watusimoto | ust ran the updater on an old version |
| 01:03:42 | raptor | did it break? |
| 01:03:45 | Watusimoto | works, except it didn;t quit the first copy |
| 01:03:57 | raptor | oop |
| 01:04:10 | Watusimoto | so the update didn;t stick |
| 01:04:56 | Watusimoto | and now it keeps updating me |
| 01:05:28 | Watusimoto | but oddly my main copy does not |
| 01:06:27 | Watusimoto | so let's see if we get complaints |
| 01:06:41 | Watusimoto | we can remotely disable the updater if it goes bezerk |
| 01:06:48 | raptor | haha ok |
| 01:08:19 | Watusimoto | i'll do the front page story, then off to bed |
| 01:08:35 | raptor | ok |
| 01:08:39 | Watusimoto | any publicity you want to do, feel free! |
| 01:08:46 | raptor | i can post to happypenguin |
| 01:08:48 | Watusimoto | otherwise we'll pick up that thread tomorrow |
| 01:08:59 | raptor | but i want to make sure the short list is ok with you |
| 01:12:05 | raptor | bitfighter.x86_64: I: binary-or-shlib-calls-gethostbyname /usr/lib64/bitfighter/bitfighter |
| 01:12:07 | raptor | The binary calls gethostbyname(). Please port the code to use getaddrinfo(). |
| 01:12:19 | raptor | interesting build warning |
| 01:24:18 | Watusimoto | whoa, that's a long post |
| 01:28:34 | raptor | that's a long post |
| 01:30:05 | karamazovapy | huh? |
| 01:30:28 | raptor | he finished the main page about 016 |
| 01:31:32 | Watusimoto | anything more tonight? |
| 01:31:36 | raptor | sleep |
| 01:31:40 | karamazovapy | nice post! w00t! |
| 01:31:54 | raptor | we'll do more publicity stuff for tomorrow.. |
| 01:33:06 | karamazovapy | oooh...Unable to connect to master |
| 01:39:28 | karamazovapy | has Nickname= been removed as an option from the ini? |
| 01:39:38 | raptor | umm |
| 01:39:42 | raptor | shouldn't have been... |
| 01:51:09 | | Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 02:01:37 | raptor | voice chat abuse |
| 02:01:47 | raptor | i can see it now |
| 02:44:27 | karamazovapy | yeah, we might have to limit voice chat message length |
| 02:44:36 | karamazovapy | 5 seconds or something |
| 03:30:29 | raptor | i'm thinking it will be a long time until the novelty of voice chat wears off for LA and BB |
| 03:30:32 | raptor | sigh |
| 03:32:22 | karamazovapy | and...AHEM...lonewolfy |
| 03:36:29 | raptor | those maps of yours, karamazovapy, play really well |
| 03:36:36 | raptor | i was suprised |
| 03:36:42 | karamazovapy | the retrieve is a bit sketchy |
| 03:37:10 | karamazovapy | I might revise that one a bit to make the top-to-bottom distance greater for the next release |
| 03:37:17 | raptor | ok |
| 03:41:31 | raptor | i can't believe 016 is finally out the door |
| 04:04:06 | | flomo has joined |
| 04:04:18 | | flomo Quit (Client Quit) |
| 04:08:25 | raptor | hey Zoomber, if you're around and interested in putting up 'Gibbed' again |
| 04:08:51 | raptor | you'll probably want to change the levels that have the 'Engineer' Special to 'EngineerUnrestricted' |
| 04:14:39 | | raptor changes topic to 'Latest release 016 http://bitfighter.org | Forums: http://bitfighter.org/forums/ | GC Project: http://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/' |
| 04:14:50 | karamazovapy | no he won't! |
| 04:14:59 | karamazovapy | he definitely won't! |
| 04:15:09 | raptor | i have to admit... engineer now is waaaay more functional |
| 04:15:15 | raptor | and may even add to the gameplay |
| 04:15:35 | karamazovapy | levels like Castles are the whole reason we decided it needed to be fixed! |
| 04:15:41 | raptor | haha |
| 04:15:46 | raptor | true |
| 04:15:57 | raptor | but there will be no option in the editor |
| 04:16:11 | karamazovapy | see my tears? |
| 04:16:20 | raptor | ha! |
| 04:16:22 | raptor | tears of joy |
| 04:16:35 | karamazovapy | it cracks me up that we already have half a dozen new core levels on top of the ones I posted |
| 04:16:50 | raptor | haha ,yeah - lone wolf wasted no time |
| 04:16:55 | karamazovapy | same with opti |
| 04:17:01 | raptor | did he put some up? |
| 04:17:10 | karamazovapy | yeah, some where you race to the cores |
| 04:17:18 | raptor | ah ok |
| 04:17:27 | karamazovapy | you played one, whether you noticed it was his or not |
| 04:17:36 | raptor | ok |
| 04:18:18 | karamazovapy | it's reassuring the quality of the new levels didn't suddenly spike |
| 04:18:28 | raptor | ha! |
| 04:19:27 | karamazovapy | I wish I could devise some kind of scientific test to determine why young players are bad at making levels |
| 04:19:44 | raptor | it's because they're not used to thinking ahead |
| 04:19:59 | raptor | i.e. what would this part of the level add/take away to the gameplay |
| 04:20:05 | karamazovapy | that could be |
| 04:20:16 | karamazovapy | but even without thinking ahead, there are gridlines set at right angles |
| 04:21:00 | raptor | although they can be very creative with the designs.. |
| 04:22:21 | karamazovapy | but I wonder if it's even that, or that they don't understand what makes a level good |
| 04:23:17 | raptor | yeah probably more elementary - i don't even always understand what makes a good level: that comes with experience |
| 04:24:43 | karamazovapy | well there are some pretty easy guidelines that will make levels suck less |
| 04:25:17 | karamazovapy | good things: symmetry, multiple pathways |
| 04:25:31 | karamazovapy | bad things: open space that offers no incentive for use |
| 04:25:43 | karamazovapy | careless irregularities |
| 04:26:21 | karamazovapy | if you just eliminate those two bad things, most crappy levels will take a huge step up in quality |
| 04:27:29 | karamazovapy | even pretty good levels benefit from adjusting useless or purposeless space |
| 04:28:34 | sam686 | something calls for... updating wiki. http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php/Building_Bitfighter |
| 04:28:46 | raptor | i'm finally building the linux RPMs... |
| 04:30:56 | | LoneWolfy Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 04:33:59 | karamazovapy | has the revision title been updated to bitfighter-016? |
| 04:34:17 | sam686 | yes |
| 04:35:08 | raptor | karamazovapy: you have omnipotent access to the website, i believe |
| 04:35:20 | karamazovapy | I updated a bit |
| 04:35:20 | raptor | so if you wanted to update things like screenshots |
| 04:35:24 | raptor | oh good |
| 04:37:24 | karamazovapy | the building bitfighter page should be pretty up to date |
| 04:37:34 | raptor | great |
| 04:37:41 | raptor | oh yuk |
| 04:37:45 | raptor | that editor screenshot |
| 04:37:52 | karamazovapy | hah - no joke! |
| 04:38:21 | karamazovapy | are you updating some of that stuff? |
| 04:38:38 | raptor | i could - but i don't have much to draw from |
| 04:38:54 | raptor | i just updated the download page a bit |
| 04:40:09 | karamazovapy | I could take a few screenshots, but I don't have the ability to upload to the /screens/ directory |
| 04:40:42 | raptor | i can do the uploading |
| 04:40:51 | raptor | there is no way through the drupal interface? |
| 04:40:59 | karamazovapy | I'm not sure |
| 04:42:11 | karamazovapy | yeah, I can only see how to create pages and stories, not upload files |
| 04:44:15 | sam686 | i might make a simple php script that accepts uploading files like screenshots (maybe, password protected too) |
| 04:44:33 | raptor | from here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1253094/howto-drupal-file-upload-form |
| 04:44:49 | raptor | but yeah we'd have to code it first.. |
| 04:49:11 | karamazovapy | okay - just had a creepy google experience |
| 04:49:28 | raptor | find something you posted 10 years ago? |
| 04:49:32 | karamazovapy | nope |
| 04:49:36 | karamazovapy | google linus torvalds |
| 04:50:08 | karamazovapy | after you get the results, start to type in richard stallman |
| 04:50:24 | raptor | hahaha |
| 04:50:35 | karamazovapy | just for fun, follow that up with eric s. raymond |
| 04:50:39 | raptor | the contrast between the images |
| 04:51:18 | karamazovapy | google's auto complete knew who I was going for before I completed the first names of the second and third people |
| 04:51:50 | karamazovapy | google was like "oh yeah, this guy's a nerd, give him the nerds" |
| 04:52:21 | raptor | ha! |
| 04:52:40 | raptor | yeah, the algorithms are becmoing extremely predictive |
| 04:54:44 | raptor | i'm going to bed early - gotta get over my cold |
| 04:54:53 | raptor | good night all and good job on the release! |
| 04:55:17 | karamazovapy | later |
| 04:58:16 | | raptor Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 14:47:55 | | LoneWolfy has joined |
| 14:48:15 | LoneWolfy | Good morning |
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| 15:27:19 | | raptor has joined |
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| 15:27:29 | raptor | good morning! |
| 15:27:48 | raptor | has 016 trashed anyone's computer yet? |
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| 15:30:53 | watusimoto | hi |
| 15:31:02 | watusimoto | looks like the few review that are in are positive |
| 15:31:32 | watusimoto | After playing core a little, I think I like the idea of shooting each core panel better |
| 15:32:01 | watusimoto | last night I kept chasing people around the core, as they were shooting it and keeping it between me and them so I could not fire back |
| 15:32:15 | watusimoto | having panels would reduce that sort of thing, I think |
| 15:32:23 | raptor | haha, yes |
| 15:32:26 | raptor | ring around the rosie |
| 15:32:31 | watusimoto | attackers would be a little more constrained in how they attacked |
| 15:33:09 | watusimoto | but for the moment, I will try to avoid any big tasks so that if we need to do a quick re-release we'll be able to |
| 15:33:19 | watusimoto | but no word of any serious bugs |
| 15:33:27 | raptor | someone did have a crash |
| 15:33:28 | watusimoto | ring around the corsie |
| 15:33:34 | raptor | but could not duplicate |
| 15:33:52 | raptor | i think it was Flomo |
| 15:34:21 | raptor | oh, linux builds are done from me end - but the Ubuntu folks could use a kick |
| 15:34:38 | watusimoto | 5 players on the old server right now |
| 15:36:02 | watusimoto | hmmm.... 015a client is not showing the upgrade now message |
| 15:36:43 | watusimoto | oh, maybe because the old master doesn't know we've upgraded |
| 15:36:49 | raptor | so... that means you need to add to old master |
| 15:36:55 | watusimoto | easy |
| 15:37:18 | raptor | i am glad the site move went relatively smooth |
| 15:37:26 | watusimoto | very |
| 15:39:23 | watusimoto | almost 2000 checkins since 015a |
| 15:40:25 | raptor | checkins? you mean unique people? |
| 15:41:47 | raptor | say - can you give me administrator and bureaucrat rights on the wiki? |
| 15:42:27 | karamazovapy | the trick with circling the core is that you need to change direction to catch them off guard, or use engineered items or repairables to help you defend |
| 15:42:32 | raptor | i *think* you can do that from this page, but I don't have the rights to know: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php/Special:ListGroupRights |
| 15:43:15 | watusimoto | hard to say... lots of white on white text |
| 15:43:34 | karamazovapy | which means if someone uses very low health cores or puts the core in a tiny box with no means of defense, you're screwed |
| 15:43:54 | raptor | bouncers work good around core |
| 15:44:00 | raptor | if you have the walls |
| 15:44:12 | karamazovapy | that's true...I don't use them much, but that might be a good reason |
| 15:44:24 | karamazovapy | I think we should turn friendly fire off for cores |
| 15:44:37 | karamazovapy | and that that should be a top priority |
| 15:44:45 | raptor | yeah, me too |
| 15:45:59 | raptor | also maybe a healing multiplier? |
| 15:46:05 | raptor | still not sure about that one.. |
| 15:46:08 | watusimoto | can't see how to add perms |
| 15:46:11 | karamazovapy | me neither |
| 15:46:30 | raptor | try ehre: bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php/Special:UserRights |
| 15:46:36 | raptor | http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php/Special:UserRights |
| 15:46:40 | raptor | ^^ there |
| 15:47:36 | watusimoto | ok |
| 15:47:40 | watusimoto | done |
| 15:47:52 | watusimoto | bf.org still points at the old domain here at work |
| 15:47:57 | raptor | yes! |
| 15:47:57 | watusimoto | at home it's fine |
| 15:48:01 | raptor | i have all power! |
| 15:48:09 | raptor | time to slay some spam |
| 15:48:31 | watusimoto | also granted karamazovapy full access |
| 15:48:44 | karamazovapy | thanks...to what? |
| 15:48:46 | watusimoto | and sam |
| 15:48:48 | watusimoto | wiki |
| 15:48:53 | watusimoto | full admin rights |
| 15:48:53 | karamazovapy | oh - neat. |
| 15:49:03 | watusimoto | no spam, please |
| 15:50:16 | watusimoto | great, the nag notices are now working on 015a clients |
| 15:50:24 | raptor | oh good |
| 15:50:26 | watusimoto | both the big red box and the motd |
| 15:50:46 | watusimoto | there are players who are probably unaware |
| 15:51:07 | raptor | it's only been 14 hours or so... |
| 15:51:51 | karamazovapy | botfighter/cleverbot already has a characteristic fix for making core work the way he wants: http://bitfighter.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1228 |
| 15:55:23 | raptor | yes - make the game more complex |
| 15:55:24 | watusimoto | I actually liked the vid |
| 15:55:45 | karamazovapy | which vid? |
| 15:55:59 | watusimoto | the first one. |
| 15:56:14 | watusimoto | Sooner or later we're going to have to admit that 016a will almost be called 017 |
| 15:56:15 | karamazovapy | I only scanned through it with the sound off - worth watching through? |
| 15:56:22 | raptor | ha |
| 15:56:27 | watusimoto | probably not; nice for me to give me some ideas |
| 15:56:35 | watusimoto | of how text could be drawn etc. |
| 15:56:49 | watusimoto | good to steal ideas from the pros |
| 15:57:01 | karamazovapy | this gametype seems more matched to HTF than core |
| 15:57:52 | | sam686 has joined |
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| 15:58:41 | karamazovapy | I still think his outlooks is to remove anything from the game that he finds difficult |
| 15:58:46 | karamazovapy | outlook* |
| 15:59:30 | karamazovapy | can we get a hot girl on the dev team, like in the video? |
| 15:59:42 | raptor | i got the feeling that was the only why she was shown |
| 16:00:08 | karamazovapy | you never see her actually /doing/ anything |
| 16:00:17 | karamazovapy | she was probably just visiting one day |
| 16:18:24 | | LordDVG has joined |
| 16:33:13 | sam686 | there you go: http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php/Special:ListGroupRights&useskin=bitfighter no more white text on white. |
| 16:34:34 | sam686 | http://bitfighter.org/wiki/index.php/Special:ListGroupRights?seskin=bitfighter (oops, wrong link) |
| 16:35:30 | sam686 | how many wrong link can i make? ?useskin=bitfighter if you are not seeing the bitfighter theme in wiki |
| 16:36:41 | sam686 | i need to go, later.. will be back in about 5 hours |
| 16:37:16 | | sam686 has left |
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| 17:09:44 | raptor | ok, so |
| 17:09:53 | raptor | first change: no friendly fire on Core? |
| 17:15:38 | karamazovapy | definitely. |
| 17:16:17 | karamazovapy | bonus - it will also help people figure otu the scoreboard if they can't damage their own cores |
| 17:16:25 | raptor | yeah |
| 17:17:35 | raptor | this is a change in behavior... most items accept friendly fire.. |
| 17:17:39 | raptor | hmm |
| 17:18:06 | karamazovapy | yeah, but this is the only damagable object whose destruction is the goal |
| 17:18:21 | karamazovapy | you can't place a flag into an enemy zone |
| 17:18:41 | karamazovapy | and we've taken steps in every other gametype to prevent team sabotage |
| 17:18:44 | raptor | true |
| 17:18:46 | raptor | hmmm |
| 17:20:28 | karamazovapy | I'm totally unconcerned about the no friendly fire anomaly for cores |
| 17:21:13 | raptor | anomaly? |
| 17:21:32 | karamazovapy | it potentially being the one "item" that can't be damaged by friendly fire |
| 17:23:41 | raptor | ah |
| 17:23:42 | raptor | ok |
| 17:24:23 | karamazovapy | that's just me |
| 17:25:16 | raptor | watusimoto / Watusimoto_: sam686 brought up an interesting issue: we use shared_ptr, when we already have RefPtr from TNL. The bigest advantage being that we wouldn't need to include the HUGE boost tree |
| 17:25:45 | watusimoto | can we get rid of boost by doing so? |
| 17:26:14 | raptor | most of it yes - i did use some parsing classes from boost, but they're no where as large as what is required for shared_ptr |
| 17:27:23 | raptor | also we need to clean up the object hierarchy |
| 17:27:27 | watusimoto | if it all still works, then I'm fine with it in principle. Would it be better to roll boost into TNL and remove their ptr? |
| 17:28:07 | raptor | the thing is that shared_ptr is definitely a heavy weight - TNL::RefPtr is about as light as you can get for automatic object clean-up |
| 17:28:23 | watusimoto | that's true |
| 17:28:32 | watusimoto | heavy at compile or runtime? |
| 17:28:40 | raptor | compile |
| 17:28:51 | watusimoto | what do you think about runtime? |
| 17:28:53 | raptor | sam686 seems to thin it is heavier at runtime, too (I think he did some tests) |
| 17:28:56 | raptor | think |
| 17:29:07 | raptor | but i doub't it's much overhead |
| 17:29:17 | watusimoto | probably hardly matters how little we use them |
| 17:29:21 | watusimoto | well, I'm ok with that |
| 17:29:44 | watusimoto | feels a little like a step back, but not too far :-) |
| 17:29:55 | raptor | yeah, see - it feels like it |
| 17:30:07 | raptor | but i t hink that's because we've convinced ourselves that boost is the future |
| 17:30:25 | watusimoto | it is the future, but maybe not ours |
| 17:30:37 | raptor | but do you see any advantage that boost::shared_ptr gives? |
| 17:30:41 | raptor | other than being 'boost' |
| 17:30:45 | watusimoto | oh yes |
| 17:30:50 | raptor | do explain |
| 17:31:05 | watusimoto | sorry -- thought you meant over raw ptrs |
| 17:31:13 | raptor | no, over RefPtr |
| 17:31:18 | raptor | over raw pointers, definitely |
| 17:31:35 | watusimoto | the adv over tnl is that it is probably more reliable, supported, standard, and, possibly faster |
| 17:31:44 | watusimoto | none of those are huge issues in our context |
| 17:32:05 | raptor | yes, the standard - it is in c++11 |
| 17:32:16 | raptor | reliable, not sure - definitely for more platforms |
| 17:32:20 | raptor | supported, yes |
| 17:32:26 | raptor | faster, according to sam686 - no |
| 17:32:52 | | BFLogBot - Commit 6b1b507e7366 | Author: buckyballreaction | Log: No friendly fire with Core |
| 17:34:08 | watusimoto | like I said, I'm fine with it |
| 17:35:44 | raptor | i'm not sure i care either way - but I do like being slimmer. sam686 definitely prefers RefPtr because he has a slower computer. although if we decide to use c++11 standard in the future, maybe that wouldn't matter |
| 17:36:03 | watusimoto | keeping everyone happy is important |
| 17:36:44 | raptor | shared_ptr in the standard would mean not the huge compile overhead: it should already be precompiled with the IDE |
| 17:37:36 | raptor | i'm sort of thinking the solution would be to mail sam686 my old desktop, it's probably loads faster than his :) |
| 17:40:34 | watusimoto | ha! |
| 17:40:38 | watusimoto | ok, gotta run |
| 17:40:43 | raptor | later |
| 17:45:32 | | watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 18:14:09 | | Watusimoto_ Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 18:31:29 | raptor | ok, what other obvious changes need to be made since release? |
| 18:31:36 | raptor | as far as gameplay goes.. |
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| 19:27:23 | karamazovapy | I suggest we place a record limit on voice chat |
| 19:27:45 | karamazovapy | or allow people to opt out of receiving voice chat |
| 19:28:03 | karamazovapy | I know there's a volume setting, but for some people it may be a bandwidth issue |
| 19:28:43 | LoneWolfy | Lol, from last night? |
| 19:29:15 | karamazovapy | raptor was asking what changes we might want to make in response to the 016 release |
| 19:29:46 | karamazovapy | disabling friendly fire for cores was another idea |
| 19:31:13 | raptor | friendly fire change has been made |
| 19:32:08 | karamazovapy | yeah, I still think a voice chat modification is in order |
| 19:32:37 | raptor | yes - let me look at optimizing it somehow... |
| 19:32:39 | karamazovapy | frankly, we might want to scrap the whole feature down the road |
| 19:33:38 | raptor | haha, yeah |
| 19:33:53 | karamazovapy | I'm just not sure it fits in with how we play the game |
| 19:33:59 | raptor | we would have to make it more useful, or get rid of it |
| 19:34:04 | karamazovapy | maybe we're just so used to typing, we can't/don't use it effectively yet |
| 19:34:31 | raptor | we could have a voicechat target menu |
| 19:34:42 | karamazovapy | what's that? |
| 19:34:48 | raptor | turn it into a global/team/pm thing |
| 19:34:53 | raptor | but only admins would have global |
| 19:35:21 | raptor | basically it would be like a loadout menu (defaulted to off) and let you select your target audience |
| 19:35:33 | raptor | then when you press 'R', it only goes to that audience |
| 19:35:54 | karamazovapy | that might be helpful... |
| 19:36:17 | raptor | and on the other end, you'd have a menu that would only receive from whom you specify (default global) |
| 19:36:19 | karamazovapy | it also might be helpful if we had voice chat automatically activate upon speech detection, the way it works for mumble |
| 19:36:44 | karamazovapy | holding down a button kind of interrupts the flow of gameplay |
| 19:37:08 | karamazovapy | that would require adding some kind of microphone calibration menu |
| 19:37:09 | raptor | ah yes |
| 19:37:20 | karamazovapy | so you could set a threshhold |
| 19:40:18 | raptor | the bandwidth thing is the most important at the moment, i think - turning voice chat to 0 should send a signal to the server that says "hey don't send to me" |
| 19:40:18 | | Watusimoto has joined |
| 19:40:38 | karamazovapy | that's a good way of doing it |
| 19:42:37 | karamazovapy | I, personally, would like to still be able to see the game screen if/when the idle-push-button-to-spawn screen comes up |
| 19:42:56 | LoneWolfy | How about if you shoot a burst it explodes early when shot? More realistic. |
| 19:43:12 | karamazovapy | leaving the screen where I died would be fine |
| 19:43:18 | karamazovapy | as opposed to picking a spawn point |
| 19:46:14 | raptor | do we have a voice chat server-side enable flag? |
| 19:47:46 | raptor | no we don't |
| 19:47:48 | raptor | that's not good |
| 20:04:58 | karamazovapy | I think FREE BAIT will be the big, revealing test, as it seems to have been in the past |
| 20:05:14 | raptor | ? |
| 20:05:36 | karamazovapy | Big Bitfighter Battle VII / BBB8 / 3B8 / FREE BAIT |
| 20:05:41 | karamazovapy | VIII* |
| 20:05:45 | raptor | haha |
| 20:06:48 | karamazovapy | I might have to make a couple more core levels to supplement the event |
| 20:06:57 | karamazovapy | I expect continued high core demand |
| 20:07:16 | raptor | the event is already planned? |
| 20:07:31 | karamazovapy | it'll be february 10th |
| 20:07:39 | raptor | oh, i just realized, we made our second goal of 016 by the end of january... :) |
| 20:07:41 | karamazovapy | I'll send the announcement e-mail on the third |
| 20:08:02 | karamazovapy | yep - one month delay, not so bad |
| 20:08:25 | raptor | i think we added the new gametype entirely in january.. |
| 20:08:40 | karamazovapy | yeah, I think you're right |
| 20:09:23 | karamazovapy | not that we need to rush into adding another, but I think this sets a good precedent for adding gametypes |
| 20:09:25 | raptor | i just realized, i left the 016 test server up and 8 people are on it... |
| 20:09:46 | raptor | it's not compiled to the latest code and probably has a few bugs |
| 20:09:52 | karamazovapy | it looks like school kids! |
| 20:10:10 | raptor | time to take a break and crash their party |
| 20:38:14 | | BFLogBot - Commit dfc28c2f7540 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Minor code reorganization/refactoring stuff. nothing interesting. |
| 20:38:16 | | BFLogBot - Commit 1df7425ac35f | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: First crack at making badges; see 3rd page of diagnostics. Feel free to add your own. A little cleanup while I was in there. |
| 20:38:17 | | BFLogBot - Commit ef230d2d8b47 | Author: watusim...@bitfighter.org | Log: Merge |
| 20:42:23 | | sam686 has joined |
| 20:42:38 | | ChanServ sets mode +v sam686 |
| 20:48:14 | raptor | karamazovapy: got that screenshot? |
| 20:48:25 | karamazovapy | yeah, I was about to upload the two for comparison |
| 20:48:30 | raptor | ok |
| 20:48:39 | Watusimoto | one of th 016a tasks is to find some actions that deserve badges. I've now created 3 ok looking badges, so all we need is some way to earn them. Something not too difficult, nor too easy, but that can be tracked in the database or by the master somehow. |
| 20:49:12 | sam686 | the only real problem with, trying to support "c++11 standard" is, trying to build it for old PPC version of mac, using outdated compiler (because apple might not want to support PPC mac anymore?) |
| 20:50:02 | raptor | sam686: we cannot support c++11 as long as the majority of dedicated servers and mac users use Centos 5 and MacOS 10.6 respectively |
| 20:50:13 | raptor | so i'd say not for a couple years maybe... |
| 20:50:22 | raptor | Watusimoto: how are you planning on displaying badges? |
| 20:50:41 | karamazovapy | I was just about to ask that |
| 20:50:43 | karamazovapy | we were curious |
| 20:50:59 | Watusimoto | not sure... on the scoreboard? |
| 20:51:13 | Watusimoto | maybe privately on the menus? |
| 20:51:15 | raptor | but with expansion to 32 different badge types... |
| 20:51:28 | Watusimoto | yes I know... |
| 20:51:52 | Watusimoto | maybe do what stackoverflow does and say 3 bronze and 2 silver badges |
| 20:52:25 | Watusimoto | that might be enough in public, with a bigger listing in the UI somewhere, and perhaps something on the forums |
| 20:52:27 | raptor | now there's a thought.. |
| 20:52:38 | Watusimoto | we could rank them into tiers |
| 20:52:57 | Watusimoto | bronze, silver, gold, platinum, carbo |
| 20:53:00 | Watusimoto | carbon |
| 20:53:13 | raptor | carbo-man |
| 20:53:21 | Watusimoto | titanium |
| 20:53:32 | karamazovapy | Bitonium |
| 20:53:53 | Watusimoto | or go for scifiey bitonium trilithium etc |
| 20:54:08 | karamazovapy | Pixeladium |
| 20:54:16 | Watusimoto | great! |
| 20:54:17 | karamazovapy | the 8-bit badge |
| 20:54:57 | Watusimoto | successfully added 128 bots to a level |
| 20:55:00 | karamazovapy | I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the development vector for badges is, though |
| 20:55:10 | Watusimoto | meaning what? |
| 20:55:21 | karamazovapy | what they represent as a group |
| 20:55:36 | raptor | i.e. is karamazovapy a developer? :) |
| 20:55:43 | karamazovapy | what their function (or non-function) is, ostensibly |
| 20:56:34 | Watusimoto | oh, that was just a test of the mechanism |
| 20:56:35 | karamazovapy | are they fleeting, long-term achievements, community-based, do they have any impact in the game |
| 20:56:48 | Watusimoto | no in game impact |
| 20:56:58 | Watusimoto | just stuff to make people feel invested |
| 20:57:04 | karamazovapy | I was wondering initially if they tied into your idea of having some kind of icons next to names |
| 20:57:07 | Watusimoto | just bling bling |
| 20:57:18 | karamazovapy | in-game, that is |
| 20:57:20 | Watusimoto | that was an idea |
| 20:57:38 | Watusimoto | maybe a colored dot representing highest level badge earned |
| 20:57:43 | karamazovapy | well it was from back in the zetaboards days, so I wasn't sure! |
| 20:58:05 | Watusimoto | I think people will go crazy for that kind of thing |
| 20:58:08 | karamazovapy | totally |
| 20:58:13 | Watusimoto | all these kids looking for validation |
| 20:58:22 | karamazovapy | a fun way to work it would be to allow everyone to pick which badge to display by their name |
| 20:58:26 | karamazovapy | ooh - maybe in the lobby |
| 20:58:30 | karamazovapy | they'd eat that up |
| 20:58:33 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 20:58:37 | Watusimoto | absolutely |
| 20:58:39 | karamazovapy | especially since underlining doesn't work in the lobby |
| 20:58:47 | Watusimoto | it could |
| 20:59:00 | Watusimoto | maybe it should |
| 20:59:04 | raptor | curious, how do you allow anyone to switch levels in a dedicated server? |
| 20:59:05 | karamazovapy | maybe |
| 20:59:15 | karamazovapy | no levelchangepassword |
| 21:00:03 | raptor | ok good |
| 21:00:43 | Watusimoto | no levchpw = anyone can change levels |
| 21:00:49 | Watusimoto | no adminpw = no one can admin |
| 21:02:50 | raptor | oh, we need to fix this: http://bitfighter.org/~raptor/doxygen_016/class_zap_1_1_item.html |
| 21:04:16 | Watusimoto | I think the key is to make PointGeometry a delegate that can be called via standard interface from EditorObject to do all geometric work. that would eliminate the right-side of the tree |
| 21:04:42 | Watusimoto | I swear I did this at one point |
| 21:06:12 | karamazovapy | normal: http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3779/screenshot4aq.png |
| 21:06:19 | karamazovapy | burst shift: http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2844/screenshot5pl.png |
| 21:07:09 | sam686 | some EditorObject is not GameObject (AbstractSpawn) |
| 21:07:58 | sam686 | some GameObject is not EditorObject (ForceField, not ForceFieldProjector) |
| 21:07:58 | raptor | so same zoom, but sdifted |
| 21:08:01 | raptor | shifted |
| 21:08:02 | Watusimoto | Correct |
| 21:08:05 | karamazovapy | yep |
| 21:08:37 | Watusimoto | we could just make editorObjs and gameObjs just be the same class, and have some obs that just don;t appear in game or editor |
| 21:09:46 | raptor | what about moving Geometry to be a parent of PointGeometry and friends? |
| 21:10:04 | raptor | i am suggesting this only for nomenclature purposes |
| 21:10:22 | sam686 | EditorPointObject and PointGeometry could be combined |
| 21:10:48 | raptor | the goal is to get rid of inbred children |
| 21:11:16 | sam686 | same with EditorPolygon and PolygonGeometry, they can be compined... |
| 21:11:59 | raptor | PolyLine Geometry, you mean? |
| 21:12:29 | raptor | http://bitfighter.org/~raptor/doxygen_016/class_zap_1_1_bf_object.html |
| 21:13:23 | raptor | if we can get the three children to the right to not use BfObject |
| 21:13:30 | raptor | that would clean up a lot |
| 21:13:54 | Watusimoto | let me try my geometry idea |
| 21:14:04 | Watusimoto | it should remove a whole branch from the tree |
| 21:14:41 | Watusimoto | what are those screenshots, k? |
| 21:18:06 | karamazovapy | when you fire a burst in command view, the screen jumps |
| 21:19:20 | karamazovapy | also, you can't see ordinance by default in command view when you have sensor equipped |
| 21:19:25 | karamazovapy | that's an active ability now |
| 21:20:00 | Watusimoto | surely not intentionally so |
| 21:20:37 | Watusimoto | so Geometry looks like it's essntially the interface that all geometry subobjects implement |
| 21:21:16 | Watusimoto | It also seems to define the functionality available to bfObject |
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| 21:57:18 | karamazovapy | my favorite part is @ 4:10 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H57LPdXaZ6M& |
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| 22:04:34 | raptor | wow |
| 22:05:19 | Watusimoto | surprisngly well made |
| 22:05:21 | Watusimoto | I like the music |
| 22:06:03 | LoneWolfy | What music? |
| 22:06:14 | karamazovapy | I think he's talking about Sandstorm |
| 22:06:45 | karamazovapy | also known as the most cliche techno song of all time |
| 22:07:07 | LoneWolfy | That awesome thecno song? |
| 22:09:18 | Watusimoto | is it CC licensed? |
| 22:09:27 | Watusimoto | that would be too much to hope for |
| 22:09:30 | karamazovapy | absolutely not |
| 22:09:32 | karamazovapy | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandstorm_%28song%29 |
| 22:09:41 | karamazovapy | it's seriously the single most famous techno song ever |
| 22:10:03 | LoneWolfy | I thought that when you put music in the game, it would be more like: you have the map assigned its own song, and in your options you could set the music type to map default, custom directory "C:/program Files/bitfighter/music" or OFF |
| 22:10:28 | karamazovapy | that was an idea I had, but we haven't taken it that far |
| 22:10:45 | LoneWolfy | Were you wanting to put Sandstorm in the game? |
| 22:10:55 | sam686 | that would mean extra bandwidth ti transmit the custom music files, and extra coding. |
| 22:11:08 | Watusimoto | I seriouslu don't like techno |
| 22:11:47 | karamazovapy | I think I just got taken in by an elaborate hoax. |
| 22:12:44 | LoneWolfy | Sam686: You could make it so that before you connect you download the song, in a cache folder or something... |
| 22:12:55 | Watusimoto | Now... Ensifrum I know |
| 22:13:01 | karamazovapy | that only shifts the problem |
| 22:13:02 | Watusimoto | but it's not exactly techno |
| 22:13:38 | Watusimoto | the only finns I ever heard of to wear kilts |
| 22:13:40 | LoneWolfy | And it would say CONNECTING TO <ip adress>: Downloading "Musicfile.ogg" |
| 22:14:01 | karamazovapy | yeah - lonewolf - that really only shifts the problem |
| 22:14:08 | Watusimoto | maybe we could get kim dotcomm to do a promo spot for bitfighter with our new music download system |
| 22:14:09 | sam686 | not sure, there is a lot of music out there, many of which is not completely free. Several music isn't allowed on youtube either. |
| 22:14:32 | Watusimoto | i heard that there is music that's not free, but haven't found any yet |
| 22:14:46 | LoneWolfy | ? |
| 22:14:51 | raptor | ha! |
| 22:15:12 | karamazovapy | that's very zen of you |
| 22:16:52 | LoneWolfy | Watusimoto: Somebody could use a .mp3 to .ogg converter... or any music file to .ogg for that matter. |
| 22:17:05 | LoneWolfy | So yeah... |
| 22:17:11 | karamazovapy | lonewolf - I'm not sure you're understanding the problem here |
| 22:17:25 | sam686 | or you can convert to .WAV (space eating uncompressed format) |
| 22:17:37 | raptor | midi! |
| 22:17:41 | raptor | midi is the future |
| 22:17:41 | Watusimoto | vinyl |
| 22:17:44 | raptor | i promise |
| 22:17:47 | Watusimoto | you could email the disks |
| 22:18:15 | karamazovapy | I can't take this irc channel anymore. |
| 22:18:53 | sam686 | in most cases, it isn't possible to convert wav / mp3 to midi with no changes to sound quality, as midi is very different format |
| 22:19:10 | | karamazovapy is now known as akmsdmir |
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| 22:20:10 | Watusimoto | k: I think the word you are looking for is "punchy" |
| 22:20:27 | LoneWolfy | Or maybe have a database of CC licenced songs to choose from for maps; and you could submit one with the page for it and it must be manually approved... but that might be boring for whoever has to do it. |
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