Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
| 00:01:31 | raptor | ignore until 019! |
| 00:02:59 | Watusimoto__ | https://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/issues/detail?id=189 |
| 00:04:10 | Watusimoto__ | giong to bed soon. one last try for tonight |
| 00:04:22 | Watusimoto__ | hey sam686; quick question for you |
| 00:04:29 | raptor | haha |
| 00:05:22 | Watusimoto__ | music comes from appdata\roaming\bitfighter\music on windows |
| 00:05:31 | Watusimoto__ | according to trusty F7 |
| 00:05:37 | raptor | huh |
| 00:05:39 | raptor | ok |
| 00:05:48 | Watusimoto__ | why was that an issue? |
| 00:05:52 | raptor | then whoever reported that to me must have had something amiss |
| 00:06:55 | raptor | they said they had to add extra music directly into program files for it to work.. |
| 00:07:17 | raptor | if so, maybe they had their btifighter ini in there and they were effectively doing a standalone.. |
| 00:10:43 | Watusimoto__ | mmmmmaybe |
| 00:13:03 | Watusimoto__ | maybe that is legit |
| 00:13:33 | Watusimoto__ | when we call getFilesFromFolder(mMusicDir, mGameMusicList, extList, ARRAYSIZE(extList)) |
| 00:13:41 | Watusimoto__ | mMusicDir is just "music" |
| 00:13:52 | Watusimoto__ | no wait |
| 00:14:00 | Watusimoto__ | I'm running a debug build, so standalone |
| 00:14:05 | Watusimoto__ | so that's right |
| 00:15:28 | Watusimoto__ | I think it's bogus |
| 00:16:04 | raptor | ok |
| 00:19:43 | | BFLogBot Commit: 11a34b67c63c | Author: watusimoto | Message: Formatting, clarity |
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| 00:32:31 | Watusimoto__ | night |
| 00:32:38 | raptor | night |
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| 01:02:52 | amgine1234567890 | spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam XD |
| 01:03:19 | | raptor withholds his kicking abilities... for now |
| 01:03:28 | amgine1234567890 | lol |
| 01:03:32 | amgine1234567890 | hi raptor |
| 01:04:26 | raptor | hi |
| 01:04:40 | amgine1234567890 | any new devolopments? |
| 01:04:53 | YoshiSmb | hi amgine. |
| 01:05:26 | amgine1234567890 | just looking around |
| 01:14:26 | amgine1234567890 | lol an you kick me once just for fun raptor XD |
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| 02:57:15 | | Santiago has joined |
| 02:58:13 | Santiago | hey |
| 02:58:16 | Santiago | raptor |
| 02:59:11 | Santiago | Do you remember that dungeon map you and me played, that used a (levelgen?) that made the portal switch places everytine you beat a stage? |
| 02:59:55 | raptor | hi |
| 03:00:08 | raptor | Santiago: it was called 'sands of time' by bobdaduck |
| 03:00:14 | raptor | i think it is still on the contest server |
| 03:00:27 | raptor | he told me not to release it because he wants to, with some modifications |
| 03:05:37 | Santiago | thanks |
| 03:06:01 | Santiago | Whats the password to change levels on the server? |
| 03:10:46 | raptor | 12121212 |
| 03:10:48 | raptor | i think |
| 03:10:52 | raptor | Santiago: ^^ |
| 03:14:14 | Santiago | Thanks :D |
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| 05:03:06 | kaen | raptor, ignore the truncation, the weird looking ship, and the obvious graphical deficiencies |
| 05:03:08 | kaen | but http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/521/screenshot3tj.png/ |
| 05:03:26 | kaen | is the culmination of the last few days |
| 05:03:58 | raptor | whoa |
| 05:04:12 | raptor | that's quite the effect! |
| 05:04:18 | kaen | :P |
| 05:04:22 | raptor | all done on the graphics proc? |
| 05:04:26 | kaen | yeah |
| 05:04:31 | kaen | super duper duper inefficiently |
| 05:04:56 | raptor | just.... whoa |
| 05:04:58 | kaen | later on I'll bake the noise into a texture, right now it's calculated on the fly |
| 05:05:12 | kaen | it's procedural, and animated |
| 05:05:22 | kaen | and it takes parameters (color, velocity, size, etc) |
| 05:05:50 | kaen | that's simplex noise, I still have to try old fashion perlin noise (slower) and Pixar's noise algo |
| 05:06:06 | kaen | which is supposedly faster and better suited for wispy-cloudy stuff |
| 05:06:38 | raptor | sooo... does this mean bitfighter is no longer retro? |
| 05:07:04 | kaen | it can still be retro |
| 05:07:06 | kaen | and polished |
| 05:07:19 | raptor | round pixels |
| 05:07:27 | kaen | but still vector graphics |
| 05:07:48 | kaen | not shipping any textures or models is pretty retro. |
| 05:08:41 | raptor | :) |
| 05:08:47 | kaen | looks more like bacteria than a super heated ball of gas, now that I stare at that screenshot... |
| 05:09:05 | kaen | hardest part has honestly been balancing the noise octaves... |
| 05:09:26 | kaen | also, there's a noticeable lack of information about procedural texture generation in glsl |
| 05:10:06 | raptor | interesting... |
| 05:10:26 | kaen | for some values of "interesting" |
| 05:10:27 | raptor | bacterium, yes |
| 05:11:10 | kaen | I need to add more high freq noise. |
| 05:11:25 | kaen | have you ever rendered stuff in photoshop before? |
| 05:11:39 | kaen | or like tried to make fire or something? |
| 05:11:41 | kaen | this is like that. |
| 05:12:06 | raptor | a little bit - but i usually get fed up with filtering and filtering and masking and filtering |
| 05:12:09 | kaen | in fact it's like identical. you have to like make a mathematical sketch of some abstract form |
| 05:12:12 | kaen | exactly |
| 05:12:25 | kaen | in this shader there's already three filters and two masks |
| 05:12:31 | raptor | ha |
| 05:12:46 | kaen | I need at least one more for more turbulent whiteout |
| 05:12:57 | kaen | and the noise filters have to be retuned as I mentioned. |
| 05:13:27 | kaen | all of the tutorials told me to generate a sphere, deform its vertices, and shade that |
| 05:13:46 | kaen | so this is actually the faster option... |
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| 06:00:09 | raptor | kaen: do you much python (I forgot..) |
| 06:00:11 | raptor | ? |
| 06:00:37 | raptor | *know |
| 06:00:40 | raptor | much pythong |
| 06:00:43 | raptor | arhgfdsakfs |
| 06:01:47 | kaen | I have a working knowledge of it |
| 06:02:42 | raptor | can you think of a better way to cleanly try and detect GUI toolkits than is used here: http://pastie.org/5701521 |
| 06:03:03 | raptor | i'm adapting the GCI notifier code to be more cross-platform (and teaching myself python in the process..) |
| 06:03:42 | raptor | that is the MainLinux.py module I currently have... |
| 06:03:50 | raptor | i'm reverse engineering all the code... slowly |
| 06:05:02 | kaen | no. |
| 06:05:05 | kaen | that's great python |
| 06:05:22 | kaen | regarding detectGui() anyway |
| 06:05:34 | raptor | because python normally looks clean anyways... but this is not sitting right in my head |
| 06:05:50 | raptor | ok, well, i'll just pretend i'm done with it for now.. |
| 06:06:00 | kaen | is the try/except stuff? |
| 06:06:22 | raptor | is the question? |
| 06:06:30 | kaen | is it* |
| 06:06:32 | kaen | sorry. |
| 06:06:36 | raptor | :) |
| 06:06:40 | kaen | :) |
| 06:07:02 | raptor | yeah, that try/except stuff looks ugly to me, but maybe it's a necessary evil |
| 06:07:09 | kaen | anyway, exceptions are not exceptional in python |
| 06:07:15 | kaen | it's idiomatic to try/except stuff |
| 06:07:27 | kaen | especially if you're trying to find one among several backends you support |
| 06:07:32 | raptor | ok |
| 06:07:48 | kaen | python is pretty chill |
| 06:08:07 | raptor | seems good so far.. |
| 06:08:14 | raptor | there's less fighting semicolons |
| 06:08:32 | raptor | and an IDE will keep all the spacing nice for you so you don't have to worry much.. |
| 06:09:01 | kaen | the only pitfall to python's whitespacing is that auto indent can break your code... |
| 06:09:17 | kaen | like an errant mass-autoformat |
| 06:09:25 | raptor | haha |
| 06:09:27 | raptor | i bet |
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| 06:15:25 | Lamp | bobdaduck |
| 06:15:33 | bobdaduck | Hi |
| 06:15:33 | Lamp | bobdaduck |
| 06:15:35 | Lamp | hi |
| 06:15:52 | bobdaduck | joined |
| 06:15:54 | Lamp | you wanted to see my map |
| 06:15:57 | Lamp | oh |
| 06:35:47 | raptor | quartz is online doing something... |
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| 14:53:22 | raptor | good morning! |
| 15:10:20 | | Disconnected. |
| 15:10:20 | | -asimov.freenode.net- *** Looking up your hostname... |
| 15:10:20 | | -asimov.freenode.net- *** Checking Ident |
| 15:10:21 | | -asimov.freenode.net- *** No Ident response |
| 15:10:21 | | -asimov.freenode.net- *** Couldn't look up your hostname |
| 15:10:26 | | BFLogBot has joined |
| 15:10:26 | | Topic is 'Bitfighter 018 released! | http://www.bitfighter.org/downloads | Welcome GCI students! Please introduce yourself and feel free to ask any questions.' |
| 15:10:26 | | Set by raptor!~raptor@unaffiliated/greenmachine on Thu Dec 06 10:11:09 GMT 2012 |
| 15:10:26 | | -ChanServ- [#bitfighter] Welcome to #bitfighter. This is an IRC channel, many or all of the users may not be paying attention. Please have patience when waiting for a response. |
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| 17:59:52 | kaen | morning |
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| 19:36:51 | Watusimoto | hllo |
| 19:36:57 | raptor | hi |
| 19:37:10 | Watusimoto | so take a look at this |
| 19:37:11 | Watusimoto | http://pastie.org/5710778 |
| 19:37:25 | Watusimoto | really only need to see the header comment |
| 19:37:25 | Watusimoto | s |
| 19:37:47 | Watusimoto | does this accurately reflect that bug you put in the bug tracker? |
| 19:38:15 | raptor | looking.. |
| 19:38:53 | raptor | ah, the ship userdata between events |
| 19:39:09 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 19:39:13 | Watusimoto | btw, this script fails |
| 19:39:19 | Watusimoto | cols 1 and 2 vary |
| 19:39:36 | Watusimoto | but I think only col1 should vary |
| 19:39:47 | raptor | so you are trying to simulate it with this script? |
| 19:39:57 | Watusimoto | oddly, I get two different userdatas that both point to the same object |
| 19:40:02 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 19:40:25 | raptor | are you use objHolder is global? doesn't it need to be outside the main() function? |
| 19:40:28 | Watusimoto | the idea that an object should stay constant over time if its in use |
| 19:40:30 | raptor | *sure |
| 19:40:39 | Watusimoto | declare in main == global |
| 19:40:45 | raptor | ah ok |
| 19:41:23 | Watusimoto | this is going to be painful to fix, I think |
| 19:41:37 | Watusimoto | but at least now I have a good way to test whether it is working or not |
| 19:41:52 | raptor | well... could it be a scoping issue? isn't the userdata passed directly from c++? |
| 19:41:57 | Watusimoto | I can expand it later to include using an obj as a key in a table, which is really what you were trying to do |
| 19:42:06 | Watusimoto | it's not a scoping issue |
| 19:42:15 | Watusimoto | I'm not sure what the issue is |
| 19:42:35 | Watusimoto | but I need to carefully trace through the inner murkiness of luaWrapper and see what's going on |
| 19:42:52 | Watusimoto | this may be a pencil and paper problem |
| 19:43:22 | raptor | some pointer is being copied probably... |
| 19:43:22 | Watusimoto | which is my criteria for a really hard problme :-) |
| 19:44:10 | Watusimoto | maybe |
| 19:44:37 | Watusimoto | what I do know is the luaProxy object is remaining constant |
| 19:44:45 | raptor | have you already confirmed that the pointer to Ship is the same in c++ when triggereing the event? |
| 19:44:54 | Watusimoto | it should be |
| 19:45:02 | Watusimoto | how would it not be? |
| 19:45:09 | Watusimoto | the ship isn;t bouncing around memory |
| 19:45:20 | raptor | well.. it shouldn't be... |
| 19:45:31 | Watusimoto | I know the ship is existing because its proxy already exists |
| 19:45:31 | raptor | but that's where i would start |
| 19:45:41 | Watusimoto | I can check that easily enough |
| 19:46:32 | Watusimoto | I like our timer class |
| 19:46:41 | Watusimoto | I started doing this with ontick, then realized that was lame |
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| 19:54:05 | raptor | ok, i tested, the ship pointer passed into the event is constant |
| 19:54:15 | raptor | but userdata changes |
| 20:09:17 | Watusimoto | it is supposed to be cached, I think |
| 20:09:36 | Watusimoto | the userdata is the Lua representation of the C++ pointer, I think |
| 20:09:43 | Watusimoto | except we have that proxy object in the middle |
| 20:09:49 | Watusimoto | which complicates things a bit |
| 20:33:22 | Watusimoto | well... we create a new userdata every time we push an object out to lua: |
| 20:33:22 | Watusimoto | luaW_Userdata* ud = (luaW_Userdata*)lua_newuserdata(L, sizeof(luaW_Userdata)); |
| 20:33:29 | Watusimoto | this always gets run |
| 20:33:39 | Watusimoto | not wrapped in any conditionals or anything\ |
| 20:33:40 | Watusimoto | so |
| 20:33:54 | Watusimoto | maybe there's some aspect of this we're misunderstanding |
| 20:34:00 | raptor | so... oh well? |
| 20:34:26 | Watusimoto | I'm going to keep probing, but the userdata itself might not be a valid thing to index |
| 20:34:42 | Watusimoto | but there are other constant handles |
| 20:34:59 | Watusimoto | one would be userdata->getUserId() (i.e. the 100 or 200) |
| 20:35:08 | Watusimoto | or maybe something else |
| 20:35:43 | raptor | yes |
| 20:35:48 | raptor | i think that may be better |
| 20:36:02 | Watusimoto | well, we want somethign easy to explain, and easy to do |
| 20:36:07 | raptor | i think i did something like ship->playername() or something |
| 20:36:20 | Watusimoto | but you thought it was a hack |
| 20:36:30 | Watusimoto | and we don;t want it to feel hacky |
| 20:36:40 | raptor | sort of, yes - it seems that some valid id should be given directly |
| 20:37:04 | Watusimoto | am working on it :-) understanding is the first step |
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| 20:43:22 | Watusimoto | here's some potential confusion |
| 20:43:31 | Watusimoto | a userdata (what we're dealing with here) is an object |
| 20:43:38 | Watusimoto | a light user data is a pointer |
| 20:43:55 | raptor | what |
| 20:44:08 | Watusimoto | Userdata represent C values in Lua. A light userdata represents a pointer. It is a value (like a number): you do not create it, it has no individual metatable, and it is not collected (as it was never created). A light userdata is equal to "any" light userdata with the same C address. |
| 20:44:49 | Watusimoto | Userdata represent C values in Lua. A full userdata represents a block of memory. It is an object (like a table): you must create it, it can have its own metatable, and you can detect when it is being collected. A full userdata is only equal to itself (under raw equality). |
| 20:44:49 | Watusimoto | When Lua collects a full userdata with a gc metamethod, Lua calls the metamethod and marks the userdata as finalized. When this userdata is collected again then Lua frees its corresponding memory. |
| 20:44:50 | raptor | couldn't they call it 'userdata pointer' |
| 20:45:07 | Watusimoto | they could have had their array indexes start with 0 |
| 20:45:17 | raptor | ... |
| 20:45:32 | Watusimoto | as I like to say: would have, could have, should have... |
| 20:45:35 | Watusimoto | ... didn't |
| 20:46:43 | raptor | that was a common phrase in the east: 'woulda, coulda, shoulda' it was a way of telling you that you're incompetent |
| 20:48:05 | raptor | at least when i was a kid |
| 20:48:55 | Watusimoto | in Boston they would say the same thing like this: "hey, jerkhead!" |
| 20:49:15 | raptor | ha! |
| 20:49:31 | Watusimoto | or maybe let a rock do the talking |
| 20:51:01 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 20:51:16 | bobdaduck | Speedzone rotation is slated for removal, right? |
| 20:51:26 | raptor | it was never invented |
| 20:51:44 | bobdaduck | Then where did it come from? xD |
| 20:52:05 | Watusimoto | it isn't there |
| 20:53:32 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 20:53:34 | bobdaduck | Yes |
| 20:53:57 | bobdaduck | I am aware of the official position on this. But off the record, where did it come from? xD |
| 20:55:46 | bobdaduck | Anyway, it is going to be removed, right? |
| 20:56:01 | bobdaduck | At least as a stark level feature, maybe will still be in levelgens? |
| 20:56:09 | raptor | i think sam686 coded it for fun back in 015 or so... |
| 20:57:03 | bobdaduck | And what about the status of worm and circle? |
| 20:57:12 | bobdaduck | Do they have a future? |
| 20:57:15 | raptor | Worm was another of his projects... |
| 20:57:19 | raptor | Circle is Watusimoto's |
| 20:57:21 | Watusimoto | worm was mine |
| 20:57:24 | Watusimoto | also |
| 20:57:32 | Watusimoto | I can show you what they're supposed to be |
| 20:57:52 | bobdaduck | Well, aren't they already what they're supposed to be? |
| 20:58:32 | Watusimoto | no |
| 20:58:41 | Watusimoto | look at the worm like things at appear c. 1:42 |
| 20:58:47 | Watusimoto | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x7naspEhD8 |
| 20:59:05 | Watusimoto | well, worms are sort of right |
| 21:01:03 | raptor | that game is crazy |
| 21:01:10 | Watusimoto | I miss it |
| 21:01:13 | Watusimoto | :-( |
| 21:01:27 | Watusimoto | one of those games that can ONLY be played in an arcade |
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| 21:01:39 | bobdaduck_ | Sorry |
| 21:01:43 | bobdaduck_ | internet went down |
| 21:01:46 | Watusimoto | when I go back to portland, I'm taking a while roll of quarters do the barcade |
| 21:02:01 | Watusimoto | *whole |
| 21:02:02 | bobdaduck_ | look at something how it appears at c 1:32 or something? |
| 21:02:09 | bobdaduck_ | lol |
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| 21:03:03 | Watusimoto | are you talking about the pope hats that shoot +s? |
| 21:03:54 | bobdaduck | thewhat |
| 21:04:05 | raptor | haha |
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| 21:06:32 | bobdaduck | So again what is the purpose of worm and circle? |
| 21:06:43 | raptor | experiments |
| 21:06:51 | kaen | we are scientists. |
| 21:07:00 | raptor | hi kaen |
| 21:07:03 | kaen | hi raptor |
| 21:07:06 | kaen | et al |
| 21:07:07 | raptor | you should show Watusimoto your work |
| 21:07:13 | bobdaduck | I think I did? |
| 21:07:24 | kaen | I don't think it's up to snuff really... |
| 21:07:30 | | raptor meant kaen |
| 21:07:39 | kaen | but I'll show you the latest |
| 21:07:48 | raptor | ko |
| 21:08:00 | kaen | image upload recommendations? |
| 21:08:02 | kaen | the one I used sucks. |
| 21:08:15 | raptor | use sam686's site |
| 21:08:25 | raptor | http://sam6.25u.com/upload3.php |
| 21:08:33 | raptor | he made it just for us.. |
| 21:08:44 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 21:10:12 | kaen | heres some a few: http://sam6.25u.com/upload/6screenshot_5.png http://sam6.25u.com/upload/5screenshot_8.png http://sam6.25u.com/upload/4screenshot_9.png |
| 21:10:14 | bobdaduck | bflogbot? |
| 21:10:19 | kaen | a few some. |
| 21:10:36 | bobdaduck | oh gosh xD |
| 21:10:47 | bobdaduck | Did you ever play Z.A.P? |
| 21:10:50 | kaen | no. |
| 21:11:11 | bobdaduck | Pity |
| 21:11:24 | bobdaduck | You probably wouldn't be trying to add that type of explosion into bitfighter if you had xD |
| 21:11:38 | | kaen shrugs. |
| 21:11:52 | raptor | kaen: looks like you have the explosion cast a shadow on the ship? |
| 21:11:59 | kaen | ignore the ship |
| 21:12:10 | raptor | ok |
| 21:12:13 | kaen | it's the remnants of a test framework I had in place |
| 21:13:25 | bobdaduck | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSF2H_1eQJc |
| 21:13:50 | bobdaduck | Or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3p0pd6GVS8 |
| 21:15:05 | kaen | why did all of those effects get taken out? |
| 21:15:12 | kaen | at any rate they'd be easy to recreate... |
| 21:15:22 | raptor | they weren't taken out |
| 21:15:27 | kaen | eh? |
| 21:15:42 | raptor | there is a weird name historical heirarchy here |
| 21:16:04 | kaen | oh |
| 21:16:05 | raptor | Z.A.P. -> Zap! (which was open sourced) |
| 21:16:13 | raptor | Zap! _> Bitfighter |
| 21:16:13 | kaen | that's right |
| 21:16:19 | bobdaduck | The effects were taken out |
| 21:16:26 | bobdaduck | because literally everyone hated them |
| 21:16:26 | raptor | Zap! -> ZAP intant action |
| 21:16:41 | raptor | i *think* |
| 21:16:56 | bobdaduck | They made most players were want to throw up from annoyance and nausea |
| 21:17:11 | bobdaduck | And the rest couldn't play at all because the effects were so flashy you couldn't see anything. |
| 21:17:29 | bobdaduck | Aside from that, it created tons of lag and stuff in general. |
| 21:17:35 | kaen | I guess you're right. |
| 21:17:43 | Watusimoto | yeah, that's the instant action remake of zap that everyone hated |
| 21:17:50 | bobdaduck | EVERYONE. |
| 21:17:52 | Watusimoto | we never had those |
| 21:18:01 | Watusimoto | those effects |
| 21:18:06 | bobdaduck | It was popular for about two days after it was launched |
| 21:18:10 | bobdaduck | and then literally everyone left. |
| 21:18:20 | bobdaduck | Biggest game you would ever find was two players and twenty bots. |
| 21:18:28 | Watusimoto | sounds like Bitfighter |
| 21:18:30 | Watusimoto | :-) |
| 21:18:38 | bobdaduck | Yeah |
| 21:18:46 | bobdaduck | but we didn't have a large playerbase in the first place |
| 21:18:57 | bobdaduck | Instantaction had hundreds of people, maybe thousands. |
| 21:19:20 | raptor | honest question - do you think that changes over the last couple of years to bitfighter have alienated people? |
| 21:19:23 | bobdaduck | And for a game to do that poorly with that many people knowing about it, and the game being free, well. |
| 21:19:37 | bobdaduck | Some have, certainly. |
| 21:19:52 | bobdaduck | Engineer is the only one that was damaging though. |
| 21:20:25 | bobdaduck | In general I think the philosophy of "Well, if people don't like it we'll just add an option to turn it off" is going to screw us over so hard. |
| 21:20:53 | bobdaduck | And that's not just talking about engineer either. |
| 21:21:06 | raptor | elaborate |
| 21:21:41 | bobdaduck | On the just talking about engineer, or on why its a terrible design philosophy? |
| 21:21:59 | raptor | uhh... sure |
| 21:22:01 | raptor | :_) |
| 21:22:08 | bobdaduck | Okay |
| 21:22:15 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 21:22:43 | bobdaduck | So in the forums I usually take the angle of "So we just keep adding features until bitfighter is a sandbox instead of a game, right?" |
| 21:23:11 | bobdaduck | Because we walk that line pretty closely. |
| 21:23:29 | raptor | especially with levelgens now... |
| 21:24:18 | raptor | so my question then, is: how do we add to the game *without* increasing features? I mean, do people want it to be simple game types forever? |
| 21:24:34 | bobdaduck | Increasing features is fine. |
| 21:24:38 | bobdaduck | Good, even. |
| 21:25:09 | bobdaduck | But it decreases the "solidity" of the game |
| 21:25:34 | bobdaduck | Starcraft 2 has levelgens |
| 21:25:38 | bobdaduck | and its a very solid game |
| 21:25:46 | kaen | another term for that might be "stasis" bobdaduck |
| 21:25:56 | kaen | to put in another viewpoint. |
| 21:25:56 | bobdaduck | But for the most part custom levels are completely apart from the actual game. |
| 21:26:19 | bobdaduck | Change is fine, but a lot of our "changes" don't actually have to do with gameplay. |
| 21:27:37 | bobdaduck | Going off absolutely nothing, it feels like about 1/3 are system features, menu integration, and backend stuff like that that makes the program more robust. then about 1/2 is just novelty experiments and such which are more "lets see what we do with this engine" than they are "lets add a new game feature" |
| 21:28:40 | bobdaduck | There's not much competitive play here anymore |
| 21:28:49 | bobdaduck | because there's too many features to actually deal with |
| 21:29:12 | bobdaduck | Levelmaking isn't really cared about anymore because no one plays competitively |
| 21:29:22 | bobdaduck | so designing competitive quality levels is something people don't care about |
| 21:29:43 | kaen | okay fair. a lot of players (and level makers) would rather exploit speed zone dynamics than play a bitmatch. |
| 21:29:47 | bobdaduck | People just design novelty maps like "fast nexus" and upload them to sams server and call it good |
| 21:30:17 | bobdaduck | The focus just really hasn't been on gameplay, the focus has been on features. |
| 21:30:49 | Watusimoto | I personally think seekers are a big postivie change; I don't feel that way about some of the other things we've added/tried |
| 21:30:55 | bobdaduck | Armor |
| 21:31:04 | Watusimoto | I don't really like armor |
| 21:31:06 | bobdaduck | Armor exists for one purpose: So you can slide around funny. |
| 21:31:15 | raptor | haha |
| 21:31:22 | bobdaduck | I mean yeah it reduces damage. But no one cares. Its just there so you can have less friction. |
| 21:31:26 | Watusimoto | I'm willing to conceed that was a failed feature |
| 21:31:39 | Watusimoto | and would totally be willing to remove it if we need the module slot |
| 21:31:39 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 21:31:59 | bobdaduck | I feel like armor isn't really needed because it doesn't have a niche. |
| 21:32:14 | bobdaduck | Bitfighter is a game that doesn't revolve around other gaming concepts like "balance" |
| 21:32:23 | Watusimoto | maybe we should remove the movement penalty for armor |
| 21:32:25 | bobdaduck | Phaser will always be number one, and shield will always be number one. |
| 21:32:27 | Watusimoto | then it would be more usable |
| 21:32:38 | Watusimoto | well, I want more balance |
| 21:32:40 | bobdaduck | Everything else is situational and skill based |
| 21:32:44 | Watusimoto | we keep making sensor more powerful\ |
| 21:32:48 | kaen | wait, the weapons aren't balanced? |
| 21:32:50 | Watusimoto | and still no one sues it :-) |
| 21:32:58 | Watusimoto | bouncers are pretty useless |
| 21:32:59 | bobdaduck | Bouncer hurts you more than the enemy |
| 21:33:02 | Watusimoto | fun as hell, but useless |
| 21:33:09 | raptor | i like bouncer |
| 21:33:10 | Watusimoto | even after we cut the self-damage in half |
| 21:33:12 | bobdaduck | Triple does the same damage as phaser for an energy cost and less range |
| 21:33:16 | kaen | true but I really just mean like average damage per second. |
| 21:33:28 | kaen | (per energy) |
| 21:33:30 | bobdaduck | Mine and burst are good |
| 21:33:33 | Watusimoto | bouncers are deadly if you can get a bead on someone |
| 21:33:35 | bobdaduck | because they're situational, niche. |
| 21:33:51 | kaen | niche weapons are good, especially when they have well-defined niches |
| 21:33:54 | bobdaduck | They aren't for dogfights, because phaser already occupies that. |
| 21:34:10 | kaen | there should be at least two viable dogfight weapons imo. |
| 21:34:24 | bobdaduck | Spybugs are good, actually (could cost less energy but they're fine right now) |
| 21:34:51 | raptor | so bobdaduck, what do you think we should focus on to make the game more friendly to competition? balance? |
| 21:35:00 | kaen | I'd say so. |
| 21:35:32 | bobdaduck | Balance is nearly fine as it is, actually. We're running with the same balance as Zap! and Zap! was successful. |
| 21:35:58 | bobdaduck | We could make positive tweaks |
| 21:36:05 | bobdaduck | But balance isn't the main problem. |
| 21:37:01 | bobdaduck | But we need to first look at what kind of player we're trying to attract. |
| 21:37:20 | kaen | active ones |
| 21:37:29 | kaen | which are usually the ones who have fun playing. |
| 21:37:29 | raptor | with beating hearts |
| 21:37:40 | bobdaduck | yeah... Active ones... Which means "we'll take whatever." |
| 21:38:11 | bobdaduck | Zap had a group of players that was pretty casual. |
| 21:38:11 | kaen | rather than have a secret clubhouse, yeah. |
| 21:39:08 | bobdaduck | Something that occured to me, which isn't what I'm recommending but something to think about: |
| 21:39:18 | bobdaduck | You could buy Zap! or play as a guest. |
| 21:39:45 | raptor | are we ignored because we're free? :) |
| 21:40:01 | bobdaduck | As a guest you'd get kicked every two games, and you couldn't use sensor, cloak, triple, and some other something I forget what. |
| 21:40:12 | bobdaduck | People would buy the game |
| 21:40:24 | bobdaduck | And then they would feel obligated to keep playing. |
| 21:40:34 | bobdaduck | We have nothing that keeps people obligated to keep playing. |
| 21:41:02 | raptor | we've tried badges... |
| 21:41:07 | bobdaduck | Achievements are a VERY good route to go |
| 21:41:08 | raptor | granted we don't have many |
| 21:41:15 | bobdaduck | But we don't have many so that doesn't count yet. |
| 21:41:44 | kaen | so that's a feature. and it's not directly related to gameplay. |
| 21:42:09 | bobdaduck | But it keeps users |
| 21:42:13 | bobdaduck | which play the game. |
| 21:42:14 | kaen | it's just based on a model that's proven to attract and retain 12 year olds. I see how it helps the popularity, but that's contrary to the other things you've said. |
| 21:42:17 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 21:42:23 | raptor | haha |
| 21:42:25 | raptor | maybe... |
| 21:42:36 | raptor | more events? |
| 21:42:55 | raptor | like weekly bitfighter bashes on a fri. night or something.. |
| 21:43:15 | kaen | yeah, I think that really we just need to seed the community |
| 21:43:22 | raptor | or maybe that'd water down participation |
| 21:43:37 | kaen | the fact that we don't *know* what to do means that no one is really telling us... |
| 21:43:42 | raptor | we're in a catch 22 of sorts, i feel like sometimes... |
| 21:44:36 | kaen | I'm really adamant that we just need a strong core. |
| 21:44:43 | kaen | of players who actually like to play |
| 21:44:53 | bobdaduck | Okay, so possible cores: |
| 21:44:58 | raptor | yes |
| 21:45:10 | kaen | and so we should move towards a game that facilitates that. |
| 21:45:23 | raptor | we need to drop thumbdrives in high school parking lots... in the mornings |
| 21:45:30 | kaen | haha perfect |
| 21:45:38 | bobdaduck | Core number one: lots and lots of features. This ends us up as a sandbox with no users, but the programmers have fun. |
| 21:46:21 | raptor | yay go us |
| 21:46:33 | bobdaduck | Core number two: Competitive gameplay. MOBA games and the like use this, and it gets and retains players. The game would be extremely addicting, and we'd have a lot of rage. To get here we would want to implement a ranking system and hold tournaments and the like. |
| 21:46:51 | raptor | MOBA? |
| 21:47:07 | bobdaduck | Moba (league of legends, heroes of newerth, dota) |
| 21:47:12 | | YoshiSmb has joined |
| 21:47:16 | raptor | what does that stand for? |
| 21:47:37 | bobdaduck | Massive online battle arena |
| 21:47:46 | raptor | yeah, but DOTA-type games have like 40 hero variants |
| 21:47:52 | raptor | and 100s of items |
| 21:47:58 | bobdaduck | yes |
| 21:47:59 | raptor | we have 6 weapons and 7 modules |
| 21:48:06 | bobdaduck | I'm focusing on their super-competitive models though. |
| 21:48:24 | kaen | players don't care about rankings in a game if they see it as unfair. |
| 21:48:26 | bobdaduck | The drawback of that is that MOBA's are known for having the worst communities of any online game ever. |
| 21:48:37 | kaen | that too |
| 21:48:52 | raptor | yeah... we don't want to be that |
| 21:49:12 | bobdaduck | Bitfighter is completely skill/strategy based |
| 21:49:14 | raptor | or at least *I* don't want to spend my time moderating people |
| 21:49:17 | bobdaduck | There's not much "balancing" to it. |
| 21:50:02 | kaen | balancing isn't just about being fair, it's about giving players viable options |
| 21:50:18 | bobdaduck | Okay, but I don't want to hit Z and have my screen fill up with 500 options |
| 21:50:26 | kaen | a game with a single good weapon/module combo is perfectly balanced but lame |
| 21:50:29 | bobdaduck | Less than ten is a good place to be |
| 21:50:31 | kaen | right, me either |
| 21:50:34 | kaen | sure |
| 21:50:38 | bobdaduck | People can understand what everything does |
| 21:50:39 | kaen | or some sufficiently small number |
| 21:50:45 | bobdaduck | While still feeling like they have variety. |
| 21:50:52 | kaen | you just need a handful of viable options |
| 21:51:00 | bobdaduck | Right. |
| 21:51:19 | bobdaduck | We need better stock maps |
| 21:51:29 | bobdaduck | or a server like kserv |
| 21:51:38 | bobdaduck | Where new and old players can go |
| 21:51:40 | bobdaduck | and know the maps |
| 21:51:50 | bobdaduck | and play competitively. |
| 21:52:09 | kaen | okay |
| 21:52:11 | raptor | so higher quality servers |
| 21:52:16 | kaen | on your point about player rankings |
| 21:52:18 | bobdaduck | Higher quality servers is a must |
| 21:52:26 | kaen | yes, we should have at least one like "official" server |
| 21:52:37 | bobdaduck | Sams doesn't work, the maps are bad and there's too many. |
| 21:52:44 | kaen | even just one official instance on a server, which could host other unofficial instances |
| 21:52:48 | raptor | oh... i can probably run one on master |
| 21:53:00 | raptor | i did for a bit, then other's got their server up |
| 21:53:04 | kaen | I'm getting another VPS here soon |
| 21:53:42 | raptor | should I still be running the contest server? |
| 21:53:48 | bobdaduck | Probably not |
| 21:54:01 | bobdaduck | But |
| 21:54:09 | bobdaduck | We don't have a better server to replace it with, eh? |
| 21:54:21 | raptor | stock maps? |
| 21:54:44 | bobdaduck | We have like six stock maps |
| 21:54:47 | bobdaduck | and none of them are good. |
| 21:55:02 | bobdaduck | Okay, they're good |
| 21:55:03 | bobdaduck | but not great. |
| 21:55:11 | raptor | remember in 013-014 we had like 4 servers with various stuff? 'stock' 'user submissions' 'tutorial' |
| 21:55:19 | bobdaduck | yeah |
| 21:55:51 | bobdaduck | Good start. |
| 21:56:08 | bobdaduck | Strong servers would passively start retaining players. |
| 21:56:52 | raptor | would a tutorial map be helpful again? |
| 21:56:58 | kaen | so pony up, bobdaduck :) |
| 21:57:19 | bobdaduck | I don't have the money or resources (internet connection) to host a dedicated server |
| 21:57:36 | bobdaduck | Or I assure you, I definitely would. |
| 21:57:37 | kaen | you could probably swing a cheap vps |
| 21:57:39 | raptor | we could host a few on the master |
| 21:57:57 | raptor | bitfighter dedicated servers don't take nearly as much RAM anymore |
| 21:58:07 | raptor | and we can put limits on bots, etc.. |
| 21:58:35 | bobdaduck | Sounds like a good idea |
| 21:58:42 | kaen | okay here's what I did for assualt cube when I played that a lot: I had one single server, with three server instances |
| 21:59:02 | kaen | one for regular unranked noob stuff, one for hi skill ranked pro stuff, and one for special game modes |
| 21:59:29 | kaen | so like, segmentation |
| 21:59:45 | kaen | competetive players don't like to play with ChumpChange |
| 22:00:12 | raptor | phaser druid server |
| 22:00:22 | kaen | and ChumpChange might prefer to orientate himself in the company of others in his skill range |
| 22:00:38 | kaen | those phaser druids will never be complete raptor. |
| 22:00:40 | bobdaduck | In Zap! no one minded if you were "playa" |
| 22:01:00 | raptor | amgine might have.. |
| 22:01:19 | bobdaduck | In Zap! most games were competitive. not "ranked" competitive, but still "I'm trying to win" competitive. |
| 22:01:23 | kaen | well I mean competitive players want to have a surmountable challenge. |
| 22:01:32 | kaen | see, I do mean ranked competitive |
| 22:01:38 | raptor | oh... we had a dedicated 'dungeon' server didn't we? |
| 22:01:48 | kaen | that's what I'm talking about! |
| 22:01:58 | bobdaduck | Zoomber did that >.< |
| 22:02:04 | kaen | that's fine :) |
| 22:02:12 | kaen | it would keep dungeons off the competitive servder |
| 22:03:13 | bobdaduck | Sams server |
| 22:03:19 | bobdaduck | works great as a noob server |
| 22:03:20 | bobdaduck | honestly |
| 22:04:16 | raptor | maybe our problem is that we have sam686's server for one niche, but no others for other niches |
| 22:04:24 | raptor | and can i get an english word for 'niche' please? |
| 22:04:32 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 22:04:34 | bobdaduck | No. |
| 22:04:36 | bobdaduck | NICHE |
| 22:05:08 | raptor | nook |
| 22:05:10 | bobdaduck | I should point out that while we need stronger servers, I'm not sure that's going to fix the entire game |
| 22:05:11 | bobdaduck | xD |
| 22:06:00 | raptor | yes, true - but every little action should help a bit... |
| 22:06:19 | raptor | maybe we should put up the old tutorial map (and revise it?) |
| 22:06:23 | raptor | i don't know where it is.. |
| 22:07:08 | bobdaduck | I have a handful of "training" maps, though they weren't exactly tutorials. |
| 22:08:16 | raptor | hah, found it on sam's |
| 22:08:47 | raptor | here it is: http://sam6.25u.com/upload/downloaded_Tutorial.level |
| 22:10:08 | raptor | wait wait... skybax made that? |
| 22:10:27 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 22:13:06 | bobdaduck | Also |
| 22:13:12 | bobdaduck | We need more work on spreading the game. |
| 22:13:18 | bobdaduck | I mean, like, well duh |
| 22:13:24 | kaen | yes but it's true |
| 22:13:46 | kaen | (we need to compel people to spread the game) |
| 22:14:01 | kaen | by making a compelling game, ideally :) |
| 22:14:17 | bobdaduck | We need to actively go out looking for places to put the game on. Right now its really passive... "I hope someone comes along to let us know about sites like Desura where we can make a page for and never look at it again" |
| 22:14:24 | raptor | ok, i'm editing the tutorial level |
| 22:14:44 | raptor | heh - i think Watusimoto *is* working on desura... |
| 22:15:08 | bobdaduck | Yeah |
| 22:15:09 | Watusimoto | that video is about preparing desura |
| 22:15:14 | bobdaduck | But we're going to put it on Desura |
| 22:15:18 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 22:15:19 | bobdaduck | And probably never look ad Desura again |
| 22:15:22 | bobdaduck | right? |
| 22:15:25 | Watusimoto | we're going to try |
| 22:15:26 | kaen | probably not true |
| 22:15:31 | Watusimoto | depends on what happens |
| 22:15:51 | kaen | I have high hopes for desura. but I'm a helpless optimist. |
| 22:16:01 | bobdaduck | It will help to put in on Desura but we need some way of keeping the game "active" |
| 22:16:13 | kaen | yes |
| 22:16:16 | kaen | like players. |
| 22:16:22 | kaen | who actively play. |
| 22:16:41 | bobdaduck | Keeping the game active on Desura. |
| 22:16:47 | bobdaduck | I'm not sure how Desura works |
| 22:16:48 | kaen | ah yes |
| 22:17:27 | bobdaduck | but if some active Desura player played bitfighter, and then let players on OTHER desura games know about bitfighter, it would be way more effective than hoping someone randomly searches for "bitfighter" |
| 22:17:37 | Watusimoto | >>>>> I don't have the money or resources (internet connection) to host a dedicated server <<<<< |
| 22:17:45 | Watusimoto | that's not an issue |
| 22:17:54 | Watusimoto | a server costs $3 per month |
| 22:18:01 | Watusimoto | I'd be willing to buy another if it were worth it |
| 22:18:59 | raptor | i can use master! |
| 22:19:08 | bobdaduck | Or ideally, if we got the bitfighter community involved in desura |
| 22:19:09 | raptor | i'm already fixing the spelling and key mistakes in the tutorial level |
| 22:19:22 | bobdaduck | and we had bitfighters wandering around on random desura games with [bitfighter]bobdaduck in their names |
| 22:19:42 | bobdaduck | That would be more effective as well. |
| 22:19:53 | kaen | there's a lack of good multiplayer games in desura |
| 22:20:09 | kaen | from my week or so poking around in it. |
| 22:20:23 | Watusimoto | for a while I had a server in Germany |
| 22:20:31 | Watusimoto | maybe I should do that again... |
| 22:21:02 | bobdaduck | Do we have any german players? |
| 22:21:04 | Watusimoto | back then it was $6 per month |
| 22:21:13 | Watusimoto | we have eruopeans from time to time |
| 22:21:22 | Watusimoto | the lag sucks from here |
| 22:21:44 | bobdaduck | And it sucks to play as us on a european server. |
| 22:21:49 | raptor | West tutorial server / East tutorial server |
| 22:21:58 | raptor | new world / old world |
| 22:21:59 | Watusimoto | the downside is that it 1) splits the communtiy, and 2) gives american players a bad time if there aer players on the europe server and they want to play |
| 22:22:10 | bobdaduck | We would need to build an entire independent European community... |
| 22:22:17 | bobdaduck | We can't even build an american community |
| 22:22:23 | bobdaduck | I think we should focus our efforts here :P |
| 22:22:43 | Watusimoto | one idea I had was the european server would be a mirror of the american server |
| 22:22:51 | Watusimoto | same levels, settings, etc. |
| 22:23:34 | bobdaduck | What would it accomplish? |
| 22:24:06 | Watusimoto | make a better experience for european players... but you'll notice I haven;t done it |
| 22:24:32 | bobdaduck | Like I said though |
| 22:24:36 | bobdaduck | We don't have european players. |
| 22:24:43 | bobdaduck | We should focus on America instead |
| 22:24:52 | bobdaduck | Before going global. |
| 22:24:54 | bobdaduck | Y'know |
| 22:25:38 | bobdaduck | Small game, big dreams |
| 22:25:46 | bobdaduck | Gotta take it a step at a time though |
| 22:28:14 | Watusimoto | except we do sometimes have european players, and the experience sucks and they never come back |
| 22:28:24 | bobdaduck | True enough |
| 22:28:47 | bobdaduck | But |
| 22:28:51 | bobdaduck | we can't play with them anyway |
| 22:28:56 | bobdaduck | because the lag is too bad on OUR end |
| 22:29:20 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 22:29:34 | Watusimoto | it's a dilemma; anyway, not the topic of the evening |
| 22:33:03 | raptor | Watusimoto: would you object to me setting up 2 or 3 dedicated servers on master? one with the Tutorial again? |
| 22:33:12 | raptor | i can't remember why we took it down anyways... |
| 22:33:31 | Watusimoto | not at all |
| 22:33:53 | | LordDVG Quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:34:52 | raptor | bobdaduck: how should i edit the bumper section in the old tutorial map? it doesn't have the 'sticky' property to it any more |
| 22:35:11 | bobdaduck | Get rid of the testitems alltogether |
| 22:35:15 | bobdaduck | Should be fine |
| 22:35:16 | bobdaduck | right? |
| 22:35:29 | raptor | hmm... yes ok |
| 22:42:35 | | kaen Quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 22:42:49 | bobdaduck | The lobby music gets annoying fast |
| 22:42:52 | bobdaduck | Well done |
| 22:42:55 | bobdaduck | but annoying fast. |
| 22:43:00 | | kaen has joined |
| 22:45:02 | raptor | here's my bumper replacement: http://sam6.25u.com/upload/6screenshot_1.png |
| 22:45:05 | raptor | what do you think bobdaduck? |
| 22:45:30 | Watusimoto | pachinko!!! |
| 22:45:37 | raptor | excuse me? |
| 22:45:42 | | YoshiSmb Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 22:46:16 | | YoshiSmb has joined |
| 22:46:22 | raptor | maybe i'll make the middle one a bumper |
| 22:47:30 | bobdaduck | works well |
| 22:47:58 | raptor | do we have a snapping problem in the editor?? |
| 22:49:13 | raptor | Watusimoto: turning off vertex snapping isn't working in the editor |
| 22:49:19 | raptor | with shift+space |
| 22:49:36 | Watusimoto | what???? |
| 22:49:46 | raptor | yeah... |
| 22:50:43 | bobdaduck | it like works halfway |
| 22:50:44 | bobdaduck | or something |
| 22:50:53 | bobdaduck | I don't quite remember right now |
| 23:04:59 | bobdaduck | How do I open my router so that my server doesn't say "pingtimedout"? |
| 23:05:25 | Watusimoto | dude -- shift + space totally works for me |
| 23:05:27 | raptor | you find the port of your dedicated server (usually 28000) |
| 23:05:50 | Watusimoto | regardless of which order I press them in |
| 23:06:08 | raptor | well then... it looks like it's an SDL 1.2 bug! |
| 23:06:16 | raptor | argh, which means i have to fix.. |
| 23:06:24 | bobdaduck | lol |
| 23:06:25 | Watusimoto | could be -- I'll try to remember to test it on my linux box tomorrow |
| 23:06:40 | Watusimoto | does just space work? |
| 23:06:52 | sam686 | Port forward UDP 28000 to your computer, know how to access your router and port forward? |
| 23:07:12 | raptor | Watusimoto: try to get this forcefield in the middle: http://sam6.25u.com/upload/9screenshot_2.png |
| 23:07:39 | Watusimoto | please tell me what happens in F7 with shift and space |
| 23:08:02 | Watusimoto | try to center it? |
| 23:08:20 | raptor | pu tthe forcefield between the upside down 'U' |
| 23:08:26 | raptor | with the projector downwards |
| 23:08:44 | raptor | i see [Space][Shift] and [Shift+Space] |
| 23:09:32 | Watusimoto | ok, then it's working |
| 23:09:42 | Watusimoto | specifically, when you have a wall on screen |
| 23:10:15 | Watusimoto | and you drag an item around, hitting space makes the grid go faint, shift-space makes the tiny magenta dot son the wall corners disappear. see that? |
| 23:10:27 | raptor | yes that works |
| 23:10:37 | Watusimoto | ok, then snapping is fully disabled |
| 23:10:40 | raptor | ok, so it is detected ok |
| 23:10:54 | raptor | so why can i not place teh forcefield how i want? |
| 23:10:55 | Watusimoto | move a repair item around |
| 23:11:10 | Watusimoto | and convince yourslf that vertex snapping really is disabled |
| 23:11:17 | raptor | ok convinced |
| 23:11:18 | raptor | :) |
| 23:11:24 | Watusimoto | so then. |
| 23:11:32 | Watusimoto | Btw, I cannot place the ff where you want it |
| 23:12:04 | Watusimoto | but this is a very different issue |
| 23:12:25 | Watusimoto | when you try to get it into that little slot, the ff is looking for something to snap to |
| 23:12:32 | Watusimoto | it grabs onto the first surface it finds |
| 23:12:59 | raptor | sorting problem? |
| 23:13:09 | Watusimoto | no |
| 23:13:19 | Watusimoto | it's not really a problem |
| 23:13:28 | Watusimoto | I mean it is in the senese that you can;t do what you want |
| 23:13:33 | Watusimoto | but |
| 23:13:37 | raptor | hrh |
| 23:13:43 | Watusimoto | why should it not snap to the side wall? |
| 23:13:52 | Watusimoto | how does it know where to snap to? |
| 23:14:13 | Watusimoto | if you rotate everything 90degrees, it works great |
| 23:15:35 | raptor | ha |
| 23:15:39 | raptor | sorting problem? |
| 23:15:46 | Watusimoto | no! |
| 23:15:49 | Watusimoto | :-) |
| 23:15:51 | raptor | i mean, does it not detect a nearest wall? |
| 23:15:53 | Watusimoto | no problem! |
| 23:16:05 | Watusimoto | it detects the first wall within range, I think |
| 23:16:14 | | raptor Quit () |
| 23:16:35 | | raptor has joined |
| 23:16:35 | | ChanServ sets mode +o raptor |
| 23:17:01 | raptor | then tell me: http://sam6.25u.com/upload/5screenshot_4.png |
| 23:17:12 | raptor | why i cannot move the forcefield any farther to the right in that picture ^^ |
| 23:17:34 | raptor | *further |
| 23:17:36 | raptor | farther? |
| 23:17:38 | raptor | hmmm |
| 23:17:46 | Watusimoto | dealer's choice, I think |
| 23:18:58 | Watusimoto | because you clearly's shouldn't put the ff there |
| 23:19:03 | Watusimoto | it's a bad choice |
| 23:19:05 | raptor | so you're saying the anchor finds the right walledge clo... haha |
| 23:19:20 | Watusimoto | so just don;t do it and there's no problem |
| 23:19:43 | raptor | you mean... "i don't want to look through editor code" |
| 23:20:01 | Watusimoto | actually... I am looking |
| 23:23:14 | bobdaduck | I'm not at home right now sam, so I can't go and do it now. I thought I opened port 28000, but my server still shows pingtimedout to a lot of peopl |
| 23:23:17 | Watusimoto | so what happens, iirc, is that the ff snaps to the grid (or not as the case may be), and then looks for a suitable mount point |
| 23:25:15 | Nothing_Much | Hello, how's everybody? |
| 23:25:24 | sam686 | hi |
| 23:26:06 | bobdaduck | Hi |
| 23:26:06 | raptor | bobdaduck: it needs to be UDP port 28000 |
| 23:26:13 | bobdaduck | UDP? |
| 23:26:26 | raptor | yes, protocol for any port can be either TCP or UDP |
| 23:26:28 | raptor | TCP is default |
| 23:26:35 | raptor | or 'both' is sometimes default |
| 23:27:12 | raptor | Watusimoto: i was quoting myself above... |
| 23:28:15 | bobdaduck | is both fine? |
| 23:28:19 | raptor | yes |
| 23:28:34 | raptor | also, make extra sure that the port is 28000 set in your bitfighter INI |
| 23:28:39 | raptor | THEN |
| 23:28:50 | raptor | you need to open the port on your computer's firewall, too |
| 23:29:01 | raptor | at every network 'hop' the port must be open |
| 23:29:07 | bobdaduck | ah |
| 23:29:14 | bobdaduck | maybe I'm missing the firewall part |
| 23:29:39 | raptor | sometimes that means somethign as complicated as ISP modem -> router -> router -> computer firewall |
| 23:29:45 | raptor | like my parent's in law |
| 23:29:54 | sam686 | in windows xp/7, there is a built-in firewall that tends to block incoming connection unless you tell it to allow it... |
| 23:31:37 | bobdaduck | Yeah, I do that sure. |
| 23:37:43 | Watusimoto | sam686: what is a good way to get me those videos of bbb9? |
| 23:38:06 | Watusimoto | do you think I'd get good quality extracting from youtube? |
| 23:38:40 | sam686 | Youtube videos isn't a very good quality, but its a smaller download size.. |
| 23:40:05 | sam686 | I use this for chrome (maybe chromium might work too): http://mandel-design.xf.cz/Chrome-Youtube-Downloader/ |
| 23:40:13 | raptor | Watusimoto: if yo use videodownload helper, it allows you to select the various qualities youtube hosts |
| 23:40:25 | sam686 | but there is a different plugins for different browsers.. |
| 23:41:08 | Watusimoto | but I don't know if youtube reencodes -- I'll bet they do |
| 23:41:28 | sam686 | youtube always re-encodes uploaded videos -- lost of quality.. |
| 23:41:36 | Watusimoto | if I'm going to go through the trouble of making a video, I want to use the highest qualtiy inputs as possible |
| 23:42:26 | sam686 | you could just download straight from my computer through my web server.. |
| 23:43:01 | Watusimoto | if that works for you, it would work for me |
| 23:43:11 | Watusimoto | raptor: all the snap code comes down to this fn |
| 23:43:13 | Watusimoto | Point EngineeredItem::mountToWall() |
| 23:43:30 | Watusimoto | take a look at that -- it has tons of comments |
| 23:43:40 | raptor | Watusimoto: ok |
| 23:43:46 | raptor | i absolve you for now |
| 23:43:59 | Watusimoto | well, maybe that fn needs to be reworked a little |
| 23:44:07 | Watusimoto | that's a zap original! |
| 23:44:08 | raptor | i bet it's a sorting problem... |
| 23:44:16 | raptor | :) |
| 23:44:35 | Watusimoto | oops, no its not -- I refactored it because our walls are all complicated now |
| 23:45:04 | Watusimoto | actually, this is even more core: |
| 23:45:04 | Watusimoto | EngineeredItem::findAnchorPointAndNormal |
| 23:45:14 | Watusimoto | THIS is a zap original! |
| 23:45:32 | Watusimoto | it does appear to do a min distance test |
| 23:46:11 | raptor | sam686: how do you use the flag -hostaddr again with a dedicated server? |
| 23:46:18 | bobdaduck | Zap didn't have snap disabling? |
| 23:46:28 | Watusimoto | no |
| 23:46:48 | Watusimoto | I'm not even sure it had snapping |
| 23:46:49 | sam686 | .. -hostaddr any:28000 or -hostaddr any:28003 or any number |
| 23:46:57 | | YoshiSmb Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 23:46:57 | raptor | ok thanks sam686 |
| 23:47:05 | Watusimoto | sam686: want to email me the details of where to get the files? |
| 23:47:21 | Watusimoto | I can do it at night (yours) if you prefer -- I could download them from work |
| 23:48:07 | Watusimoto | (or private irc msg would work too) |
| 23:48:41 | sam686 | there, told you the link to only a few of you.. |
| 23:49:03 | Watusimoto | thanks! |
| 23:49:16 | raptor | how did you do that sam686? |
| 23:49:31 | sam686 | I did a /notice sam686 blah blah blah |
| 23:49:43 | raptor | yay tutorial server up! |
| 23:50:27 | | YoshiSmb has joined |
| 23:50:27 | Watusimoto | do you care when I download them? |
| 23:50:36 | sam686 | I don't care.. |
| 23:50:53 | sam686 | it will only be 5 Mbps speed |
| 23:51:02 | sam686 | I don't mind lagging a little.. |
| 23:51:06 | Watusimoto | that's a lot of files! |
| 23:51:25 | Watusimoto | I'll wget them tomorrow morning from work. that will be about 3AMish your time |
| 23:51:31 | Watusimoto | lag free until then! |
| 23:51:36 | sam686 | ok |
| 23:51:43 | Watusimoto | anyone know a good video editing package for win or linux? |
| 23:51:49 | raptor | avidemux |
| 23:51:59 | raptor | it's for both |
| 23:52:08 | Watusimoto | is that the gimp of video? |
| 23:52:12 | raptor | but might be a bit crashy on windows... |
| 23:52:30 | raptor | not really - there isn't a leading video editor |
| 23:52:32 | raptor | oh |
| 23:52:42 | raptor | kdenlive is a really good one for transitions/effects etc |
| 23:52:48 | raptor | might be linux only |
| 23:53:11 | raptor | actually you want kdenlive if possible |
| 23:53:25 | raptor | if you're going to do lots of clips |
| 23:54:35 | sam686 | there is VirtualDub for windows. but its only good for some video conversion and some trimming and combining, its not for adding text and crazy stuff. |
| 23:55:08 | sam686 | there is Windows movie maker, but that can only output a spesific format, haven't tried it much.. |
| 23:55:45 | raptor | yeah, since MS released that, not many other free ones are really as good - except for the restricted output of it |
| 23:57:58 | sam686 | There is a list of video editors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_editing_software |
| 23:59:36 | Watusimoto | just looking at that |
