#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2013-05-31

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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10:47:57 raptor good day!
10:48:45 bobdaduck g'mornain
10:56:59 bobdaduck did you see my idea for fixing circles?
10:58:25 raptor yes, but I forgot it already..
11:00:03 bobdaduck circles as a repairabel/engineerable
11:00:14 bobdaduck the spawn timer only goes off if the circle dies
11:00:36 bobdaduck circles will have team affiliations, and instakill enemies like asteroids.
11:02:24 raptor huh
11:02:35 raptor that seems better than what they are now..
11:02:59 raptor so the spawner would be the engineerable?
11:03:25 raptor and would it allow only one circle (or would we define how many it makes?)
11:04:39 bobdaduck only one circle per spawner
11:04:44 bobdaduck to avoid network death
11:04:58 bobdaduck when the circle dies, then a spawn timer starts (level editor defined)
11:05:19 bobdaduck and then also do the same for mines.  Make mines a mine spawner instead of just a preset mine that only does something once per level.
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13:08:27 kaen my idea for fixing circles is much simpler:
13:08:43 kaen 1. remove Circle and CircleSpawner
13:08:45 kaen 2. fixed!
13:10:21 bobdaduck 3. Add suns
13:10:34 bobdaduck ONLY WAY I WILL ACCEPT SUCH A PROPOSAL
13:31:43 kaen lol bug reports: https://jira.mongodb.org/browse/PYTHON-532
13:33:23 bobdaduck roflwhat
13:33:53 Nothing_Much apparently trolls are now making their way towards.. those things
13:37:12 kaen make sure that when you report bugs you call the developers plebeians and type in all caps with excessive punctuation
13:38:08 kaen I hope that guy got a taste of some crow when the devs responded to him with nothing but courtesy
13:39:40 bobdaduck It didn't sound all that serious to me...?
13:40:01 Nothing_Much it's basic bottom-of-the-barrel stupidity
13:40:33 Nothing_Much it all depends on who takes it seriously, in a specific context
13:40:50 kaen "DISCOVER ORIGINAL AUTHOR SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED NEAR COMPUTER"
13:41:51 kaen nah, this guy is a huge jackass mad because his crappy web app tripped an obscure bug in one of the most massively deployed open source projects in existence
13:42:21 bobdaduck I have a hard time believing anyone who is speaking in all caps is serious.
13:42:43 kaen and, if he can in fact "CRASH 99% OF ALL WEB 3.9 SHIT-TASTIC WEBSCALE MONGO-DEPLOYING SERVICES WITH 16 BYTE POST" then this should actually be made through private disclosure
13:43:44 bobdaduck I still have a really hard time believing anyone who uses caps lock is serious.
13:43:50 kaen there's some subtleties in the phrasing that are really, really condescending. especially in the context of bug reports, which should be technical and professional
13:44:28 kaen "Labels: incompetence"
13:46:55 bobdaduck still can't take it seriously
13:47:55 kaen it's intrinsically a very serious report...
13:48:15 kaen oh, look he even apologizes afterwards
13:49:01 kaen I guess I feel better now
14:15:02 raptor hahaha...  that report is awesome
14:32:00 raptor but kind of mean..
15:18:14 BFLogBot Commit: 3e0d672572d5 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Fix warnings 
15:18:16 BFLogBot Commit: 07deb80207b1 | Author: watusimoto  | Message: Fix some warnings, reduce code duplication, add some tests that don't run for some reason... 
15:18:17 Watusimoto hi
15:18:21 raptor commits!
15:18:43 Watusimoto kaen: my question from last night is to ask if you know why the tests I just committed don't run
15:19:33 raptor you touched my bot balancing logic!
15:19:59 bobdaduck There's balancing logic?
15:20:06 raptor there is now
15:20:09 raptor it's even smart
15:20:20 bobdaduck ohyah?
15:20:25 raptor err
15:20:32 raptor maybe you're thinking of something different
15:20:43 raptor logic to always add teh appropriate number of bots to balance teams
15:20:52 bobdaduck Why would that need logic?
15:21:01 raptor because
15:21:06 raptor just because
15:21:27 bobdaduck xD
15:23:53 Watusimoto my mods were basically a warning killing exersize
15:24:26 raptor oh neat - you even wrote a test...
15:24:35 raptor maybe I should fall in line and start doing that myself..
15:24:42 Watusimoto yes... but the tests don't run
15:24:52 Watusimoto I have a dummy test that should fail, but it doesn't
15:27:03 Watusimoto those tests aren't really very interesting.  they were really for myself to verify testing was still working, and to double-check my logic
15:28:04 raptor soo...
15:28:22 raptor is integer division guaranteed to round down on all platforms?
15:29:06 raptor that's one of those murky questions I was never sure about..
15:30:46 raptor looks like yes
15:31:06 raptor integer division is guaranteed to return the integer quotient with any fraction discarded
15:31:50 Watusimoto yes, that's my understanding
15:31:57 Watusimoto but... we have a test to verify that!
15:32:42 Watusimoto the code I wrote is probably less efficient than the code it replaced, but it kills warnings without casts, and is clearer so (maybe) it's better?
15:34:36 raptor seems fine to me..
15:35:08 raptor I've been learning recently that branches kill performance in later generation CPUs
15:35:38 raptor because of pipelining
15:43:10 raptor Watusimoto: what are your specific suggestions for improvements to the 'SETUP ROBOTS' menu and options?
15:44:54 Watusimoto oh yes
15:44:56 Watusimoto ummm
15:45:14 Watusimoto try moving the sub menu higher up in the menu options
15:45:27 Watusimoto find a way to make it clearer what the various options do
15:46:04 Watusimoto either by changing the text/help, or looking at ways of providing more detailed help based on what option is chosen
15:46:12 raptor so I thought I was clear on the help text for the options, but maybe not?
15:46:21 Watusimoto it was clearish
15:46:21 raptor i was clear for me...  :)
15:46:39 Watusimoto it may be a problem with the way we do our menus
15:46:57 Watusimoto overall, I think you picked good options and sturctured it pretty well
15:47:24 Watusimoto if you want to call it done 9for now) you can, and I will see what I can do after I finish this never ending controller button revamp
15:47:32 raptor http://sam6.25u.com/upload/2screenshot_26.png
15:47:58 raptor are you saying that maybe the yellow/green text isn't that easy to digest?
15:48:24 Watusimoto I don't actually know what that option is supposed to do!
15:48:37 raptor the yellow doesn't make sense?
15:48:55 raptor bobdaduck: your a good control subject...  does that yellow text make sense?
15:48:56 Watusimoto so min player count is 6 in this case?
15:49:16 raptor *you're
15:49:17 raptor yes
15:49:26 raptor and if it were a 2 team game, but 7 players were there
15:49:33 raptor a bot would still be added
15:49:42 raptor even though the minimum players has been met
15:49:53 Watusimoto ok, so not 6 players per team
15:50:06 bobdaduck The yellow text is whatever
15:50:11 bobdaduck the options are confusing though.
15:50:26 raptor http://sam6.25u.com/upload/2screenshot_27.png
15:50:34 raptor http://sam6.25u.com/upload/1screenshot_28.png
15:50:46 bobdaduck Auto-add bots:  Yes/No.  The end
15:50:58 raptor uh no
15:51:23 raptor you need control over howmany get added
15:51:24 Watusimoto why would you not want forced balancing?
15:51:38 Watusimoto I think just two options:
15:51:48 raptor Watusimoto: say you have a CTF game with 19 players already playing (like in BBB)
15:51:53 Watusimoto Add Robots or Add Robot Players
15:52:05 bobdaduck Add robot players what
15:52:07 raptor adding a bot for player 20 might not make sense
15:52:15 Watusimoto and Minimum Players or Minimum Players Per Team
15:52:25 bobdaduck that's silly
15:52:30 bobdaduck it might be different per level
15:52:45 Watusimoto perhaps you are right, but really, is anyone going to toggle that in the menu in that case?
15:53:12 bobdaduck If we really want to give people that control throw it in the ini
15:53:26 raptor it is in the INI
15:53:32 Watusimoto or even use the level params of min/max players to control the bots
15:53:38 raptor ha
15:53:43 bobdaduck Honestly when you said "robot menu" I was expecting something more like in-game if you hit esc there's an "add bots" option
15:53:48 Watusimoto I know they're never used
15:54:05 Watusimoto bobdaduck: that's what this is
15:54:14 raptor well..  I followed the lead of other multiplayer games (specifically UT)
15:54:18 Watusimoto oh wait, no it isn't
15:54:31 Watusimoto I think it should also be on the options menu from in-game
15:54:39 Watusimoto but it is also good where it is
15:54:47 Watusimoto I think it needs to be in both places
15:55:04 raptor well, this is the server set up
15:55:11 Watusimoto yes, needs to be there
15:55:18 raptor we can add another ROBOTS menu for adding/removing bots
15:55:25 bobdaduck Do we need an "advanced options" menu?
15:55:36 bobdaduck This all belongs there...
15:55:54 Watusimoto I think that in the game setup it should just be bots yes/no
15:56:02 Watusimoto we default the number of players to 4 per team
15:56:13 Watusimoto we force balance it
15:56:25 Watusimoto (though perhaps taking score into account to help a weaker team)
15:56:47 Watusimoto we provide an in-game options menu that
15:56:57 raptor i have never seem a per-team setting before on a server, just a 'total/minimum players' option
15:57:00 raptor *seen
15:57:03 Watusimoto 1) allows you to turn off/on bots
15:57:15 Watusimoto 2) perhaps set the number of bots
15:57:32 Watusimoto and 3) perhaps perhaps has an advanced option to customize what bots/settings are used
15:57:56 raptor so i struggle with the phrase 'turn off/on bots'
15:58:02 raptor because bots are always on
15:58:10 Watusimoto but I think the host option should just be bots/no bots
15:58:18 Watusimoto or maybe... always bots
15:58:32 raptor a level file can specify NoBots
15:58:39 Watusimoto with an in-game option to turn them off
15:59:28 Watusimoto when I say turn off/on bots I mean turn off/on auto balancing by adding/removing bots automatically
15:59:48 Watusimoto but as I think about it, I think we should be auto balancing by default
16:00:03 Watusimoto with a sane number of bots
16:01:16 Watusimoto however sane is defined
16:01:33 Watusimoto mabye 6 players per game ?
16:01:39 Watusimoto maybe 8 ?
16:02:15 raptor ok, so despite teh terminology not being accurate, you think I should just name the option 'Enable Robots' or something?
16:02:28 raptor inaccuracy breaks my brain
16:02:32 Watusimoto or soemthing
16:02:40 Watusimoto no, we should pick a correct name
16:02:53 Watusimoto Auto Robots
16:03:00 Watusimoto Add Robots
16:03:11 raptor not 'Add'
16:03:31 Watusimoto Use Bot Balancing
16:03:44 Watusimoto Use Bots to Balance Teams
16:03:58 Watusimoto Add Bots to Balance Teams
16:04:24 raptor well, I have 'BOT BALANCING' and the yellow text is straightforward I think
16:04:35 raptor do we need tooltips?
16:04:55 raptor i thought the purpose of the yellow text was to make it so we can non-verbose menu options
16:05:02 raptor *we can have
16:05:10 Watusimoto yesish
16:05:22 Watusimoto I think tooltips would be a mistake :-)
16:05:30 raptor good...  me too  :)
16:05:46 Watusimoto bot balancing is not clear to me
16:05:50 Watusimoto maybe I don't game enough
16:06:26 Watusimoto Auto-Manage Bots
16:06:53 Watusimoto Manage Bots: Auto/Manual
16:07:18 Watusimoto maybe that>
16:07:20 Watusimoto ?
16:10:23 raptor oh interesting
16:10:27 Watusimoto sorry to have to go, but I have some parenting to attend to
16:10:29 raptor i just started ut2004 to see what it did..
16:10:32 Watusimoto ok
16:10:34 raptor ok, you go parent
16:10:39 Watusimoto tell me first!
16:10:43 Watusimoto I might not be coming back
16:10:55 raptor ok, it doesn't have an 'enable bots' option
16:10:58 raptor it has two:
16:11:01 raptor 1.  min players
16:11:08 raptor 2.  bots balance
16:11:17 raptor if min players is above 0, then it adds bots
16:11:30 Watusimoto and what does 2. do?
16:11:55 raptor 'bots balance' lets bots change teams, etc. when more players join the game to keep balance - there is no 'force balance' like there was in the original UT
16:12:24 raptor so bots would just be added up until the minimum was met
16:12:40 raptor wow UT99 is 14 years old!
16:13:42 Watusimoto ok, well, gotta run.  I think simplify this as much as possible, especially on the host menu.  We can discuss again tomorrow if you prefer
16:13:46 Watusimoto good nithgt!
16:13:54 raptor o
16:13:55 raptor k
16:13:57 raptor night
16:18:23 Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
16:31:19 kaen "<raptor> is integer division guaranteed to round down on all platforms?"
16:31:35 kaen I think it's guaranteed to round towards zero
16:31:45 kaen because it's usually done by truncation
16:32:06 raptor yep, you win  :)
16:32:27 kaen lol
16:38:08 raptor maybe for bots, we just have a 'min players' option
16:38:16 raptor instead of enable bots/etc...
16:39:12 raptor hmm...  well heading home
16:39:15 raptor back later!
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19:02:03 fordcars did you do DnD?
19:02:07 fordcars bobdaduck
19:02:14 bobdaduck hm?
19:02:39 fordcars WHAT
19:02:44 fordcars THE 7th?!?!?!
19:02:57 fordcars lololololololololol I htought it was today and I missed it hahahahah
19:03:06 bobdaduck xD
19:03:09 bobdaduck NOPE.
19:03:12 fordcars lol
19:03:15 fordcars phew
19:03:42 fordcars I am heading north in a few hours for the weekend
19:06:17 bobdaduck cool
19:06:53 bobdaduck Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
19:08:07 kaen I'm so excited for the dnd reveal. You could say I'm...
19:08:09 kaen pumped.
19:08:13 kaen hehe
19:08:15 kaen muahaha
19:08:19 kaen muAHAHAHAHAH
19:08:43 kaen oh... bobdaduck is gone
19:28:05 fordcars ouch :P
19:28:19 fordcars anyway later guys, going to internet-free zone :P
19:28:25 fordcars bye
19:28:39 fordcars see ya monday
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23:08:32 bobdaduck raptor
23:08:50 bobdaduck I tried ForceFieldProjector.new() and it crashed the game
23:09:13 raptor sweet!
23:12:09 raptor hmm...  that shouldn't crash..
23:15:24 raptor didn't i give you a special build with fixes to FFPs?
23:15:28 bobdaduck yeah
23:15:43 bobdaduck special build allows modification of forcefield attributes such as team
23:15:47 bobdaduck but.

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These logs were automatically created by BFLogBot on irc.freenode.net.

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10:47:57	raptor	good day!
10:48:45	bobdaduck	g'mornain
10:56:59	bobdaduck	did you see my idea for fixing circles?
10:58:25	raptor	yes, but I forgot it already..
11:00:03	bobdaduck	circles as a repairabel/engineerable
11:00:14	bobdaduck	the spawn timer only goes off if the circle dies
11:00:36	bobdaduck	circles will have team affiliations, and instakill enemies like asteroids.
11:02:24	raptor	huh
11:02:35	raptor	that seems better than what they are now..
11:02:59	raptor	so the spawner would be the engineerable?
11:03:25	raptor	and would it allow only one circle (or would we define how many it makes?)
11:04:39	bobdaduck	only one circle per spawner
11:04:44	bobdaduck	to avoid network death
11:04:58	bobdaduck	when the circle dies, then a spawn timer starts (level editor defined)
11:05:19	bobdaduck	and then also do the same for mines. Make mines a mine spawner instead of just a preset mine that only does something once per level.
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13:08:27	kaen	my idea for fixing circles is much simpler:
13:08:43	kaen	1. remove Circle and CircleSpawner
13:08:45	kaen	2. fixed!
13:10:21	bobdaduck	3. Add suns
13:10:34	bobdaduck	ONLY WAY I WILL ACCEPT SUCH A PROPOSAL
13:31:43	kaen	lol bug reports: https://jira.mongodb.org/browse/PYTHON-532
13:33:23	bobdaduck	roflwhat
13:33:53	Nothing_Much	apparently trolls are now making their way towards.. those things
13:37:12	kaen	make sure that when you report bugs you call the developers plebeians and type in all caps with excessive punctuation
13:38:08	kaen	I hope that guy got a taste of some crow when the devs responded to him with nothing but courtesy
13:39:40	bobdaduck	It didn't sound all that serious to me...?
13:40:01	Nothing_Much	it's basic bottom-of-the-barrel stupidity
13:40:33	Nothing_Much	it all depends on who takes it seriously, in a specific context
13:40:50	kaen	"DISCOVER ORIGINAL AUTHOR SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED NEAR COMPUTER"
13:41:51	kaen	nah, this guy is a huge jackass mad because his crappy web app tripped an obscure bug in one of the most massively deployed open source projects in existence
13:42:21	bobdaduck	I have a hard time believing anyone who is speaking in all caps is serious.
13:42:43	kaen	and, if he can in fact "CRASH 99% OF ALL WEB 3.9 SHIT-TASTIC WEBSCALE MONGO-DEPLOYING SERVICES WITH 16 BYTE POST" then this should actually be made through private disclosure
13:43:44	bobdaduck	I still have a really hard time believing anyone who uses caps lock is serious.
13:43:50	kaen	there's some subtleties in the phrasing that are really, really condescending. especially in the context of bug reports, which should be technical and professional
13:44:28	kaen	"Labels: incompetence"
13:46:55	bobdaduck	still can't take it seriously
13:47:55	kaen	it's intrinsically a very serious report...
13:48:15	kaen	oh, look he even apologizes afterwards
13:49:01	kaen	I guess I feel better now
14:15:02	raptor	hahaha... that report is awesome
14:32:00	raptor	but kind of mean..
15:18:14		BFLogBot Commit: 3e0d672572d5 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Fix warnings
15:18:16		BFLogBot Commit: 07deb80207b1 \| Author: watusimoto \| Message: Fix some warnings, reduce code duplication, add some tests that don't run for some reason...
15:18:17	Watusimoto	hi
15:18:21	raptor	commits!
15:18:43	Watusimoto	kaen: my question from last night is to ask if you know why the tests I just committed don't run
15:19:33	raptor	you touched my bot balancing logic!
15:19:59	bobdaduck	There's balancing logic?
15:20:06	raptor	there is now
15:20:09	raptor	it's even smart
15:20:20	bobdaduck	ohyah?
15:20:25	raptor	err
15:20:32	raptor	maybe you're thinking of something different
15:20:43	raptor	logic to always add teh appropriate number of bots to balance teams
15:20:52	bobdaduck	Why would that need logic?
15:21:01	raptor	because
15:21:06	raptor	just because
15:21:27	bobdaduck	xD
15:23:53	Watusimoto	my mods were basically a warning killing exersize
15:24:26	raptor	oh neat - you even wrote a test...
15:24:35	raptor	maybe I should fall in line and start doing that myself..
15:24:42	Watusimoto	yes... but the tests don't run
15:24:52	Watusimoto	I have a dummy test that should fail, but it doesn't
15:27:03	Watusimoto	those tests aren't really very interesting. they were really for myself to verify testing was still working, and to double-check my logic
15:28:04	raptor	soo...
15:28:22	raptor	is integer division guaranteed to round down on all platforms?
15:29:06	raptor	that's one of those murky questions I was never sure about..
15:30:46	raptor	looks like yes
15:31:06	raptor	integer division is guaranteed to return the integer quotient with any fraction discarded
15:31:50	Watusimoto	yes, that's my understanding
15:31:57	Watusimoto	but... we have a test to verify that!
15:32:42	Watusimoto	the code I wrote is probably less efficient than the code it replaced, but it kills warnings without casts, and is clearer so (maybe) it's better?
15:34:36	raptor	seems fine to me..
15:35:08	raptor	I've been learning recently that branches kill performance in later generation CPUs
15:35:38	raptor	because of pipelining
15:43:10	raptor	Watusimoto: what are your specific suggestions for improvements to the 'SETUP ROBOTS' menu and options?
15:44:54	Watusimoto	oh yes
15:44:56	Watusimoto	ummm
15:45:14	Watusimoto	try moving the sub menu higher up in the menu options
15:45:27	Watusimoto	find a way to make it clearer what the various options do
15:46:04	Watusimoto	either by changing the text/help, or looking at ways of providing more detailed help based on what option is chosen
15:46:12	raptor	so I thought I was clear on the help text for the options, but maybe not?
15:46:21	Watusimoto	it was clearish
15:46:21	raptor	i was clear for me... :)
15:46:39	Watusimoto	it may be a problem with the way we do our menus
15:46:57	Watusimoto	overall, I think you picked good options and sturctured it pretty well
15:47:24	Watusimoto	if you want to call it done 9for now) you can, and I will see what I can do after I finish this never ending controller button revamp
15:47:32	raptor	http://sam6.25u.com/upload/2screenshot_26.png
15:47:58	raptor	are you saying that maybe the yellow/green text isn't that easy to digest?
15:48:24	Watusimoto	I don't actually know what that option is supposed to do!
15:48:37	raptor	the yellow doesn't make sense?
15:48:55	raptor	bobdaduck: your a good control subject... does that yellow text make sense?
15:48:56	Watusimoto	so min player count is 6 in this case?
15:49:16	raptor	*you're
15:49:17	raptor	yes
15:49:26	raptor	and if it were a 2 team game, but 7 players were there
15:49:33	raptor	a bot would still be added
15:49:42	raptor	even though the minimum players has been met
15:49:53	Watusimoto	ok, so not 6 players per team
15:50:06	bobdaduck	The yellow text is whatever
15:50:11	bobdaduck	the options are confusing though.
15:50:26	raptor	http://sam6.25u.com/upload/2screenshot_27.png
15:50:34	raptor	http://sam6.25u.com/upload/1screenshot_28.png
15:50:46	bobdaduck	Auto-add bots: Yes/No. The end
15:50:58	raptor	uh no
15:51:23	raptor	you need control over howmany get added
15:51:24	Watusimoto	why would you not want forced balancing?
15:51:38	Watusimoto	I think just two options:
15:51:48	raptor	Watusimoto: say you have a CTF game with 19 players already playing (like in BBB)
15:51:53	Watusimoto	Add Robots or Add Robot Players
15:52:05	bobdaduck	Add robot players what
15:52:07	raptor	adding a bot for player 20 might not make sense
15:52:15	Watusimoto	and Minimum Players or Minimum Players Per Team
15:52:25	bobdaduck	that's silly
15:52:30	bobdaduck	it might be different per level
15:52:45	Watusimoto	perhaps you are right, but really, is anyone going to toggle that in the menu in that case?
15:53:12	bobdaduck	If we really want to give people that control throw it in the ini
15:53:26	raptor	it is in the INI
15:53:32	Watusimoto	or even use the level params of min/max players to control the bots
15:53:38	raptor	ha
15:53:43	bobdaduck	Honestly when you said "robot menu" I was expecting something more like in-game if you hit esc there's an "add bots" option
15:53:48	Watusimoto	I know they're never used
15:54:05	Watusimoto	bobdaduck: that's what this is
15:54:14	raptor	well.. I followed the lead of other multiplayer games (specifically UT)
15:54:18	Watusimoto	oh wait, no it isn't
15:54:31	Watusimoto	I think it should also be on the options menu from in-game
15:54:39	Watusimoto	but it is also good where it is
15:54:47	Watusimoto	I think it needs to be in both places
15:55:04	raptor	well, this is the server set up
15:55:11	Watusimoto	yes, needs to be there
15:55:18	raptor	we can add another ROBOTS menu for adding/removing bots
15:55:25	bobdaduck	Do we need an "advanced options" menu?
15:55:36	bobdaduck	This all belongs there...
15:55:54	Watusimoto	I think that in the game setup it should just be bots yes/no
15:56:02	Watusimoto	we default the number of players to 4 per team
15:56:13	Watusimoto	we force balance it
15:56:25	Watusimoto	(though perhaps taking score into account to help a weaker team)
15:56:47	Watusimoto	we provide an in-game options menu that
15:56:57	raptor	i have never seem a per-team setting before on a server, just a 'total/minimum players' option
15:57:00	raptor	*seen
15:57:03	Watusimoto	1) allows you to turn off/on bots
15:57:15	Watusimoto	2) perhaps set the number of bots
15:57:32	Watusimoto	and 3) perhaps perhaps has an advanced option to customize what bots/settings are used
15:57:56	raptor	so i struggle with the phrase 'turn off/on bots'
15:58:02	raptor	because bots are always on
15:58:10	Watusimoto	but I think the host option should just be bots/no bots
15:58:18	Watusimoto	or maybe... always bots
15:58:32	raptor	a level file can specify NoBots
15:58:39	Watusimoto	with an in-game option to turn them off
15:59:28	Watusimoto	when I say turn off/on bots I mean turn off/on auto balancing by adding/removing bots automatically
15:59:48	Watusimoto	but as I think about it, I think we should be auto balancing by default
16:00:03	Watusimoto	with a sane number of bots
16:01:16	Watusimoto	however sane is defined
16:01:33	Watusimoto	mabye 6 players per game ?
16:01:39	Watusimoto	maybe 8 ?
16:02:15	raptor	ok, so despite teh terminology not being accurate, you think I should just name the option 'Enable Robots' or something?
16:02:28	raptor	inaccuracy breaks my brain
16:02:32	Watusimoto	or soemthing
16:02:40	Watusimoto	no, we should pick a correct name
16:02:53	Watusimoto	Auto Robots
16:03:00	Watusimoto	Add Robots
16:03:11	raptor	not 'Add'
16:03:31	Watusimoto	Use Bot Balancing
16:03:44	Watusimoto	Use Bots to Balance Teams
16:03:58	Watusimoto	Add Bots to Balance Teams
16:04:24	raptor	well, I have 'BOT BALANCING' and the yellow text is straightforward I think
16:04:35	raptor	do we need tooltips?
16:04:55	raptor	i thought the purpose of the yellow text was to make it so we can non-verbose menu options
16:05:02	raptor	*we can have
16:05:10	Watusimoto	yesish
16:05:22	Watusimoto	I think tooltips would be a mistake :-)
16:05:30	raptor	good... me too :)
16:05:46	Watusimoto	bot balancing is not clear to me
16:05:50	Watusimoto	maybe I don't game enough
16:06:26	Watusimoto	Auto-Manage Bots
16:06:53	Watusimoto	Manage Bots: Auto/Manual
16:07:18	Watusimoto	maybe that>
16:07:20	Watusimoto	?
16:10:23	raptor	oh interesting
16:10:27	Watusimoto	sorry to have to go, but I have some parenting to attend to
16:10:29	raptor	i just started ut2004 to see what it did..
16:10:32	Watusimoto	ok
16:10:34	raptor	ok, you go parent
16:10:39	Watusimoto	tell me first!
16:10:43	Watusimoto	I might not be coming back
16:10:55	raptor	ok, it doesn't have an 'enable bots' option
16:10:58	raptor	it has two:
16:11:01	raptor	1. min players
16:11:08	raptor	2. bots balance
16:11:17	raptor	if min players is above 0, then it adds bots
16:11:30	Watusimoto	and what does 2. do?
16:11:55	raptor	'bots balance' lets bots change teams, etc. when more players join the game to keep balance - there is no 'force balance' like there was in the original UT
16:12:24	raptor	so bots would just be added up until the minimum was met
16:12:40	raptor	wow UT99 is 14 years old!
16:13:42	Watusimoto	ok, well, gotta run. I think simplify this as much as possible, especially on the host menu. We can discuss again tomorrow if you prefer
16:13:46	Watusimoto	good nithgt!
16:13:54	raptor	o
16:13:55	raptor	k
16:13:57	raptor	night
16:18:23		Watusimoto Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
16:31:19	kaen	"<raptor> is integer division guaranteed to round down on all platforms?"
16:31:35	kaen	I think it's guaranteed to round towards zero
16:31:45	kaen	because it's usually done by truncation
16:32:06	raptor	yep, you win :)
16:32:27	kaen	lol
16:38:08	raptor	maybe for bots, we just have a 'min players' option
16:38:16	raptor	instead of enable bots/etc...
16:39:12	raptor	hmm... well heading home
16:39:15	raptor	back later!
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19:02:03	fordcars	did you do DnD?
19:02:07	fordcars	bobdaduck
19:02:14	bobdaduck	hm?
19:02:39	fordcars	WHAT
19:02:44	fordcars	THE 7th?!?!?!
19:02:57	fordcars	lololololololololol I htought it was today and I missed it hahahahah
19:03:06	bobdaduck	xD
19:03:09	bobdaduck	NOPE.
19:03:12	fordcars	lol
19:03:15	fordcars	phew
19:03:42	fordcars	I am heading north in a few hours for the weekend
19:06:17	bobdaduck	cool
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19:08:07	kaen	I'm so excited for the dnd reveal. You could say I'm...
19:08:09	kaen	pumped.
19:08:13	kaen	hehe
19:08:15	kaen	muahaha
19:08:19	kaen	muAHAHAHAHAH
19:08:43	kaen	oh... bobdaduck is gone
19:28:05	fordcars	ouch :P
19:28:19	fordcars	anyway later guys, going to internet-free zone :P
19:28:25	fordcars	bye
19:28:39	fordcars	see ya monday
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23:08:32	bobdaduck	raptor
23:08:50	bobdaduck	I tried ForceFieldProjector.new() and it crashed the game
23:09:13	raptor	sweet!
23:12:09	raptor	hmm... that shouldn't crash..
23:15:24	raptor	didn't i give you a special build with fixes to FFPs?
23:15:28	bobdaduck	yeah
23:15:43	bobdaduck	special build allows modification of forcefield attributes such as team
23:15:47	bobdaduck	but.