#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2013-09-08

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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03:34:04 Nothing_Much Good morning!
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04:14:58 Nothing_Much Hi everyone
04:35:29 Nothing_Much Is anybody in charge of the twitter account?
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07:14:21 Watusimoto hi YoshiSmb
07:15:43 Watusimoto just reading about the nsa
07:16:21 YoshiSmb nsa?
07:16:38 Nothing_Much national security agency/association
07:16:53 YoshiSmb ahh.
07:17:38 Nothing_Much basically, if you've ever owned a windows pc, a smart phone, or any computer out there, it'll spy on you
07:17:40 Nothing_Much the nsa
07:18:03 Nothing_Much it's pretty messed up
07:23:13 Watusimoto indeed it is
07:23:54 Nothing_Much it's not just the USA that has it
07:24:18 Watusimoto indeed it isn't
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10:12:28 YoshiSmb is somebody online?
10:30:19 YoshiSmb helllo?
10:39:57 YoshiSmb hello?
10:43:36 Watusimoto apparently not!
10:53:58 Watusimoto working on bitfighter
10:54:39 YoshiSmb ohh.
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11:49:27 Skybax Halla
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14:27:25 raptor good day
14:28:37 Nothing_Much Hey raptor
14:30:40 raptor i promise i'll code again sometime..
14:33:43 Nothing_Much Take your time dude.
14:56:47 kaen ditto...
14:59:42 Watusimoto hello
15:00:05 Watusimoto I am getting really sick of the stupid spawndelay crap
15:00:11 Watusimoto it's currently broken
15:00:31 Watusimoto and I'm having troubles following all the convoluted logic that it uses
15:00:56 Watusimoto so I decided to try to get our testing framework up and running for full client-server interactions
15:01:10 Watusimoto so I could write some tests and try to get a better handle on this
15:01:22 Watusimoto but now I'm hitting a road block on that as well
15:01:26 Watusimoto grrrr....
15:01:47 Watusimoto I need to create a mock version of UIManager
15:02:00 Watusimoto unsure if I should do it by hand or try to implement google mock
15:02:18 Watusimoto unfortunately, it's a huge class, and has several template members
15:03:19 Watusimoto argh
15:06:20 raptor hi
15:06:30 raptor didn't kaen attempt to mock UIManager?
15:07:01 kaen nope
15:07:22 raptor nevermind then.
15:07:54 kaen why does it have to be mocked, Watusimoto ?
15:08:00 raptor spawndelay and /idle junk, right?
15:08:12 kaen I mean, is it causing some sort of runtime error?
15:08:14 raptor I removed like half of the junk in there a few months back
15:08:20 Watusimoto it is the gateway to all our UI code
15:08:57 kaen I guess I don't understand how that prevents you from testing clientgame
15:09:04 Watusimoto since we don't want the UI code to be run (tests shouldn't be tringgering explosion sfx, should they?)
15:09:14 Watusimoto clientgame requires a UIManager
15:09:24 Watusimoto to do all its UI stuff
15:09:48 kaen sounds like we need an injectable dummy UIManager
15:09:52 Watusimoto I've refactored things a little so that you pass the clientGame constructor a UIManager rather than having it instantiate its own
15:10:01 kaen ok, that's the injectable part
15:10:02 Watusimoto yes, that's it exactly
15:10:15 Watusimoto so we need to create the dummy UIManager
15:10:39 kaen well, I know this is lame.... but what if you copy/paste UIManager.* and delete the implementations?
15:10:43 Watusimoto the UIManager header is 263 lines
15:10:56 Watusimoto that is lame :-)
15:11:15 Watusimoto I would need to create a UIManager interface
15:11:28 Watusimoto and two implementations - the real and the dummy
15:11:35 Watusimoto then in the test code I can instnatiate the dummy
15:12:07 Watusimoto it's all doable, just a huge amount of typing
15:12:26 Watusimoto though I knew we'd have to do it sometime
15:12:47 Watusimoto I'm also stuck on the naming
15:13:07 Watusimoto we need a name for the interface, for the real one, and the fake one
15:13:36 Watusimoto UIManager is interface, UIManagerImpl is class, UIManagerFake is fake?
15:13:43 Watusimoto I hate impl
15:13:47 kaen the most common convention I've seen is IUIManager and CUIManager
15:13:53 kaen (interface and concrete)
15:14:05 Watusimoto I've never seen CUIManager
15:14:30 Watusimoto I think IUIManager looks a bit goofy
15:14:47 Watusimoto especially when in the real code, there is only the implementation
15:15:57 raptor save me from the Impls
15:16:09 kaen ok, UIManager as the interface makes sense too
15:16:41 kaen UIManagerReal/UIManagerDummy ?
15:17:03 kaen UIManagerReal would only show up once in the source code (wherever you construct it)
15:17:06 raptor UserInterfaceManagerInterfaceJavaBeanParent
15:17:17 kaen lol
15:17:50 Nothing_Much Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
15:18:22 kaen but yes, testing means that a dummy UIManager is inevitable unless you want to write the mock code and bring in a mock library (something we've been able to avoid so far)
15:18:39 kaen which sounds like even more work than copy/paste/mass delete
15:18:53 Watusimoto I think UIManager should be the interface
15:19:06 Watusimoto and mockUIManager or fakeUIManager is the fake
15:19:53 Watusimoto google mock would actually not be much more work than what we are proposing
15:19:56 kaen I have no strong feelings, but a shared prefix will make them show up next to eachother in class lists
15:20:18 kaen it would definitely be handy have a mock library
15:20:25 Watusimoto and what we are proposing is a step along the way towards implementing google mock
15:20:32 kaen but mocking is sort of a copout for bad architecture imo
15:21:29 Watusimoto so UIManager, UIManagerFake, UIManagerReal?
15:21:36 kaen sounds fine to me
15:21:49 Watusimoto why is mocking a copout?
15:22:13 Watusimoto I can't see how it could be avoided if you want to wall off some functions from testing (like gfx and sfx)
15:22:43 kaen well, if uimanager had really good design it would be usable (though not necessarily useful) without a graphic/sound context
15:22:57 kaen and we could just prevent it from acquiring one and be done
15:23:08 kaen granted
15:23:20 kaen it was designed long before unit testing was a twinkle in our eye
15:24:20 kaen that's not meant to be a criticism, but I'm just pointing out we could save from having mocks or an interface layer if that were the case
15:24:45 Watusimoto not taken as a criticism
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15:43:19 Watusimoto well, I'll get it working in the morning
15:43:22 Watusimoto good night!
15:45:14 Nothing_Much l8r Watusimoto
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15:50:47 raptor night!
15:50:54 raptor wow do i hate oglconsole
15:52:53 raptor kaen: quick OGL question -
15:53:56 raptor when you do this:  glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION);    glPushMatrix();    glLoadMatrixf(C->pMatrix);
15:54:08 raptor and then the same thing with  glMatrixMode(GL_MODELVIEW);
15:54:16 raptor what are you *actually* doing?
15:55:20 raptor not 'you' exactly, but when that is done in code
15:58:17 raptor it's using GLfloat pMatrix[16];
16:04:22 raptor actually I think I understand what's happening...
16:07:01 Nothing_Much kaen's at work I believe
16:07:42 kaen nope, got of just a bit ago
16:09:57 Nothing_Much Quit (Quit: bye)
16:12:08 kaen raptor, that's configuring the "modelviewprojection matrix"
16:12:16 kaen (obviously)
16:12:35 kaen it sets up how the points you pass to gl are rendered
16:12:59 raptor because I don't know why oglconsole is doing half the things it does - it seems like most of it is already done elsewhere in our game
16:13:10 kaen projection is for your position of the worl, modelview is for the attributes of the "model" (i.e. mesh)
16:13:20 raptor yes
16:13:21 kaen that stuff is probably popped
16:13:22 raptor ok
16:13:24 raptor it is
16:13:26 kaen ok
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16:21:31 raptor I'm starting to think we should just kill oglconsole in favor of our own console...
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03:34:04	Nothing_Much	Good morning!
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04:14:58	Nothing_Much	Hi everyone
04:35:29	Nothing_Much	Is anybody in charge of the twitter account?
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07:14:21	Watusimoto	hi YoshiSmb
07:15:43	Watusimoto	just reading about the nsa
07:16:21	YoshiSmb	nsa?
07:16:38	Nothing_Much	national security agency/association
07:16:53	YoshiSmb	ahh.
07:17:38	Nothing_Much	basically, if you've ever owned a windows pc, a smart phone, or any computer out there, it'll spy on you
07:17:40	Nothing_Much	the nsa
07:18:03	Nothing_Much	it's pretty messed up
07:23:13	Watusimoto	indeed it is
07:23:54	Nothing_Much	it's not just the USA that has it
07:24:18	Watusimoto	indeed it isn't
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10:12:28	YoshiSmb	is somebody online?
10:30:19	YoshiSmb	helllo?
10:39:57	YoshiSmb	hello?
10:43:36	Watusimoto	apparently not!
10:53:58	Watusimoto	working on bitfighter
10:54:39	YoshiSmb	ohh.
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11:49:27	Skybax	Halla
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14:27:25	raptor	good day
14:28:37	Nothing_Much	Hey raptor
14:30:40	raptor	i promise i'll code again sometime..
14:33:43	Nothing_Much	Take your time dude.
14:56:47	kaen	ditto...
14:59:42	Watusimoto	hello
15:00:05	Watusimoto	I am getting really sick of the stupid spawndelay crap
15:00:11	Watusimoto	it's currently broken
15:00:31	Watusimoto	and I'm having troubles following all the convoluted logic that it uses
15:00:56	Watusimoto	so I decided to try to get our testing framework up and running for full client-server interactions
15:01:10	Watusimoto	so I could write some tests and try to get a better handle on this
15:01:22	Watusimoto	but now I'm hitting a road block on that as well
15:01:26	Watusimoto	grrrr....
15:01:47	Watusimoto	I need to create a mock version of UIManager
15:02:00	Watusimoto	unsure if I should do it by hand or try to implement google mock
15:02:18	Watusimoto	unfortunately, it's a huge class, and has several template members
15:03:19	Watusimoto	argh
15:06:20	raptor	hi
15:06:30	raptor	didn't kaen attempt to mock UIManager?
15:07:01	kaen	nope
15:07:22	raptor	nevermind then.
15:07:54	kaen	why does it have to be mocked, Watusimoto ?
15:08:00	raptor	spawndelay and /idle junk, right?
15:08:12	kaen	I mean, is it causing some sort of runtime error?
15:08:14	raptor	I removed like half of the junk in there a few months back
15:08:20	Watusimoto	it is the gateway to all our UI code
15:08:57	kaen	I guess I don't understand how that prevents you from testing clientgame
15:09:04	Watusimoto	since we don't want the UI code to be run (tests shouldn't be tringgering explosion sfx, should they?)
15:09:14	Watusimoto	clientgame requires a UIManager
15:09:24	Watusimoto	to do all its UI stuff
15:09:48	kaen	sounds like we need an injectable dummy UIManager
15:09:52	Watusimoto	I've refactored things a little so that you pass the clientGame constructor a UIManager rather than having it instantiate its own
15:10:01	kaen	ok, that's the injectable part
15:10:02	Watusimoto	yes, that's it exactly
15:10:15	Watusimoto	so we need to create the dummy UIManager
15:10:39	kaen	well, I know this is lame.... but what if you copy/paste UIManager.* and delete the implementations?
15:10:43	Watusimoto	the UIManager header is 263 lines
15:10:56	Watusimoto	that is lame :-)
15:11:15	Watusimoto	I would need to create a UIManager interface
15:11:28	Watusimoto	and two implementations - the real and the dummy
15:11:35	Watusimoto	then in the test code I can instnatiate the dummy
15:12:07	Watusimoto	it's all doable, just a huge amount of typing
15:12:26	Watusimoto	though I knew we'd have to do it sometime
15:12:47	Watusimoto	I'm also stuck on the naming
15:13:07	Watusimoto	we need a name for the interface, for the real one, and the fake one
15:13:36	Watusimoto	UIManager is interface, UIManagerImpl is class, UIManagerFake is fake?
15:13:43	Watusimoto	I hate impl
15:13:47	kaen	the most common convention I've seen is IUIManager and CUIManager
15:13:53	kaen	(interface and concrete)
15:14:05	Watusimoto	I've never seen CUIManager
15:14:30	Watusimoto	I think IUIManager looks a bit goofy
15:14:47	Watusimoto	especially when in the real code, there is only the implementation
15:15:57	raptor	save me from the Impls
15:16:09	kaen	ok, UIManager as the interface makes sense too
15:16:41	kaen	UIManagerReal/UIManagerDummy ?
15:17:03	kaen	UIManagerReal would only show up once in the source code (wherever you construct it)
15:17:06	raptor	UserInterfaceManagerInterfaceJavaBeanParent
15:17:17	kaen	lol
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15:18:22	kaen	but yes, testing means that a dummy UIManager is inevitable unless you want to write the mock code and bring in a mock library (something we've been able to avoid so far)
15:18:39	kaen	which sounds like even more work than copy/paste/mass delete
15:18:53	Watusimoto	I think UIManager should be the interface
15:19:06	Watusimoto	and mockUIManager or fakeUIManager is the fake
15:19:53	Watusimoto	google mock would actually not be much more work than what we are proposing
15:19:56	kaen	I have no strong feelings, but a shared prefix will make them show up next to eachother in class lists
15:20:18	kaen	it would definitely be handy have a mock library
15:20:25	Watusimoto	and what we are proposing is a step along the way towards implementing google mock
15:20:32	kaen	but mocking is sort of a copout for bad architecture imo
15:21:29	Watusimoto	so UIManager, UIManagerFake, UIManagerReal?
15:21:36	kaen	sounds fine to me
15:21:49	Watusimoto	why is mocking a copout?
15:22:13	Watusimoto	I can't see how it could be avoided if you want to wall off some functions from testing (like gfx and sfx)
15:22:43	kaen	well, if uimanager had really good design it would be usable (though not necessarily useful) without a graphic/sound context
15:22:57	kaen	and we could just prevent it from acquiring one and be done
15:23:08	kaen	granted
15:23:20	kaen	it was designed long before unit testing was a twinkle in our eye
15:24:20	kaen	that's not meant to be a criticism, but I'm just pointing out we could save from having mocks or an interface layer if that were the case
15:24:45	Watusimoto	not taken as a criticism
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15:43:19	Watusimoto	well, I'll get it working in the morning
15:43:22	Watusimoto	good night!
15:45:14	Nothing_Much	l8r Watusimoto
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15:50:47	raptor	night!
15:50:54	raptor	wow do i hate oglconsole
15:52:53	raptor	kaen: quick OGL question -
15:53:56	raptor	when you do this: glMatrixMode(GL_PROJECTION); glPushMatrix(); glLoadMatrixf(C->pMatrix);
15:54:08	raptor	and then the same thing with glMatrixMode(GL_MODELVIEW);
15:54:16	raptor	what are you actually doing?
15:55:20	raptor	not 'you' exactly, but when that is done in code
15:58:17	raptor	it's using GLfloat pMatrix[16];
16:04:22	raptor	actually I think I understand what's happening...
16:07:01	Nothing_Much	kaen's at work I believe
16:07:42	kaen	nope, got of just a bit ago
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16:12:08	kaen	raptor, that's configuring the "modelviewprojection matrix"
16:12:16	kaen	(obviously)
16:12:35	kaen	it sets up how the points you pass to gl are rendered
16:12:59	raptor	because I don't know why oglconsole is doing half the things it does - it seems like most of it is already done elsewhere in our game
16:13:10	kaen	projection is for your position of the worl, modelview is for the attributes of the "model" (i.e. mesh)
16:13:20	raptor	yes
16:13:21	kaen	that stuff is probably popped
16:13:22	raptor	ok
16:13:24	raptor	it is
16:13:26	kaen	ok
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16:21:31	raptor	I'm starting to think we should just kill oglconsole in favor of our own console...
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