Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
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| 00:23:22 | Watusimoto | hola amigos |
| 00:23:28 | raptor | hello |
| 00:23:32 | Watusimoto | back in luxembourg |
| 00:23:39 | Watusimoto | I am exhausted |
| 00:23:44 | raptor | welcome back! |
| 00:23:50 | Watusimoto | raptor: I just forwarded you an email you will find interesting |
| 00:23:56 | raptor | checking.. |
| 00:24:13 | Watusimoto | RE our MIA VPS |
| 00:24:58 | raptor | oh my goodness... |
| 00:25:04 | raptor | the IPMI was hacked |
| 00:25:12 | raptor | that's nuts |
| 00:25:23 | raptor | that's basically equivalent to the server BIOS |
| 00:25:29 | Watusimoto | interesting |
| 00:25:53 | Watusimoto | I'm going to redirect bitfighter.net back to the original vps so we can keep track of restoratin progress |
| 00:25:58 | raptor | ok |
| 00:26:42 | raptor | that's actually good news - URPad was forthcoming and informative and responsible |
| 00:26:45 | Watusimoto | I prepaid a year on the second vps -- what I'd like to do, I think, is keep it in reserve, and use it as an active mirror site so if this happens again, we have both a backup and a fallback |
| 00:27:01 | Watusimoto | it's not a very powerful machine, but it was only something liek $10 |
| 00:27:01 | sam686 | www.bitfighter.org still points to old server (only bitfighter.org was redirected to another temporary server) |
| 00:27:15 | Watusimoto | sam686: welcome! |
| 00:27:28 | raptor | that's a good idea |
| 00:27:29 | Watusimoto | yes, you are right -- I deliberately did that, and promptly forgot |
| 00:27:40 | Watusimoto | which idea? the fallback machine? |
| 00:27:50 | raptor | i can set up an rsync script - do you want to add a semi-permanent DNS like backup.bitfighter.org to it? |
| 00:27:58 | Watusimoto | we could do that |
| 00:28:18 | Watusimoto | or we could have bitfighter.net point to the backup machine |
| 00:28:28 | raptor | rsync to the fallback machine... if they are basically the same OS/arch, then I can even sync config files |
| 00:28:30 | Watusimoto | we'll need to look at how much disk we have vs. need |
| 00:29:01 | Watusimoto | I think I paid a little more to get 25GB, but I looked at a lot of servers so I may be remembering wrong |
| 00:29:12 | Watusimoto | and I had had several tasty belgian ales, so that also muddled things |
| 00:29:16 | raptor | this new one has 128MB RAM and 10GB disk |
| 00:29:23 | Watusimoto | ah, ok |
| 00:29:23 | raptor | heh |
| 00:29:49 | Watusimoto | yeah, the first one I looked at had the 25GB option, but they were "sold out" of the super low end machine |
| 00:30:04 | sam686 | the RAM limit is probably a real problem, I might go with at least 512 mb for 32 bit |
| 00:30:23 | Watusimoto | for running the master, 128MB is plenty |
| 00:30:36 | raptor | yeah, think of IPMI has an uber-BIOS - it can control loads of things including multiple blades in a rack |
| 00:30:52 | Watusimoto | I should read up on it, just as a point of curiosity |
| 00:30:54 | raptor | but it's usually only accessible via serial port |
| 00:31:06 | raptor | or other direct-hardware access |
| 00:31:19 | raptor | so the fact that it was hacked raises some interesting questions... |
| 00:31:23 | sam686 | although we could reduce bitfighter.org memory usage by moving some parts to a separate server, like logbot |
| 00:31:30 | Watusimoto | so the second machine will be there to keep the lights on in case the first goes away for some reason, and also to provide a seed to build a new server if we need it |
| 00:31:31 | raptor | maybe a sysadmin was trying to play rogue on it |
| 00:31:57 | Watusimoto | I think in the case like this, logbot can just go on holliday |
| 00:32:29 | Watusimoto | someone might have been targeting a particular service running on the vps |
| 00:32:47 | Watusimoto | or the sys admin might have screwed up, and this is their cover |
| 00:33:01 | raptor | yeah, but the direct-hardware access requirement is what makes it odd |
| 00:33:01 | Watusimoto | or someone might have been seeking a good attack platform |
| 00:33:34 | raptor | unless the IPMI vulnerability was that there was some entry way from a NIC |
| 00:33:40 | Watusimoto | maybe when things have calmed down, I can ask for more info about the attack |
| 00:34:26 | Watusimoto | what if they left a direct access cable plugged in, and it was connected to a machine on the internet |
| 00:34:35 | raptor | that could happen too |
| 00:35:31 | Watusimoto | hacking has come a long way since the days when I tried my hand at wardialing |
| 00:35:51 | sam686 | whatever IPMI is, its likely won't affect my home server (no IPMI there) |
| 00:35:58 | Watusimoto | nor here! |
| 00:36:23 | raptor | hahaha wardialing |
| 00:37:00 | Watusimoto | this from my latest ticket complaining about a lack of info |
| 00:37:01 | Watusimoto | We are working to restore the effected VPS' and hope to have them all restored within the next 48-72 hrs, but that is only an estimate. |
| 00:37:48 | raptor | ok |
| 00:38:23 | Watusimoto | my big releif is that we won't be losing our database |
| 00:38:30 | fordcars | Yay! |
| 00:38:41 | Watusimoto | if the backup actually works |
| 00:58:12 | sam686 | I need to go, might be back in 3 hours |
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| 02:06:11 | Watusimoto | Latest news from urpad |
| 02:06:12 | Watusimoto | http://pastie.org/9328186 |
| 02:06:52 | raptor | hmmm |
| 02:07:07 | raptor | let's hope we're not among the 'few failed backups' |
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| 07:37:03 | sam686 | I guess more updates on urpad problems is here http://urpad.net/blog/ |
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| 18:18:06 | YoshiSmb_m | Hi Everybody! |
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| 19:16:10 | raptor | good morning! |
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| 20:00:39 | YoshiSmb_m | Morning Raptor! (what a bad night with the childs) |
| 20:00:55 | raptor | good morning |
| 20:01:51 | raptor | that means you need a nap during the day (me too..) |
| 20:01:52 | raptor | :) |
| 20:04:11 | YoshiSmb_m | yea... |
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| 20:28:37 | YoshiSmb_m | https://www.dropbox.com/s/0595hilyzw8lj0z/menu.ogg |
| 20:29:20 | YoshiSmb_m | can you test it out raptor? |
| 20:29:52 | raptor | spooky |
| 20:30:03 | YoshiSmb_m | ? |
| 20:30:38 | raptor | it sounds scary |
| 20:31:27 | YoshiSmb_m | oh, it's doesnt sound scary for me |
| 20:33:57 | YoshiSmb_m | it's sounds... |
| 20:34:04 | YoshiSmb_m | Sad... |
| 20:36:59 | YoshiSmb_m | how scary it's is? |
| 20:37:06 | YoshiSmb_m | for you? |
| 20:37:17 | raptor | not very scary |
| 20:38:10 | YoshiSmb_m | at least it's does fit on bitfighter menu... (i think) |
| 20:45:25 | | Watusimoto_ has joined |
| 20:47:47 | watusimoto | hi |
| 20:48:06 | raptor | hi |
| 20:49:06 | watusimoto | still no news on bf.org |
| 20:49:26 | raptor | I finally found the real reason behind our client lib and linking woes |
| 20:49:51 | raptor | yeah, i keep pinging www.bitfighter.org, just in case |
| 20:53:36 | raptor | do you understand what PIC is? (pointer-independent code) |
| 20:54:02 | raptor | oops.. *position-independent |
| 20:54:40 | raptor | see here: http://stackoverflow.com/a/5311538 |
| 20:55:30 | raptor | basically what happens is this: |
| 20:55:54 | raptor | 1. code is by default compiled in a position-dependent way (it's faster) |
| 20:56:28 | raptor | 2. an archive is linked together with all the position-dependent objects together |
| 20:56:34 | raptor | * a static archive |
| 20:57:24 | | YoshiSmb_m Quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 20:57:46 | raptor | 3. when a static archive is linked into the final binary, only those pieces that fulfill the method calls needed in the binary are linked in, not the whole thing |
| 20:58:20 | raptor | 4. since pieces of the static archive may be missing in the final binary, the position-dependent code gets misaligned |
| 20:58:34 | raptor | 5. weird errors can ensue when running the resulting binary |
| 20:59:19 | raptor | ... There are 3 solutions to this problem: |
| 21:00:07 | raptor | 1. compile with -fPIC, or as position-independent code (which Windows doesn't support). This also adds some overhead to every method call |
| 21:00:55 | raptor | 2. guarantee the full static library is linked in in the final binary linking. This is what kaen did to our build system that adds some complexity with extra linker flags |
| 21:02:20 | raptor | 3. don't use static libraries as an interim collection to link in the final binary; instead, link all original object files together. This is what we did before attempting reduce having to recompile code all the time for the tests |
| 21:03:05 | watusimoto | ok, I got all that. I have some questions, but I'll save them for later. I got to run! |
| 21:03:10 | watusimoto | I'll be on later! |
| 21:03:10 | raptor | ok rats |
| 21:03:13 | raptor | later! |
| 21:03:24 | watusimoto | did you want to finish your thought? |
| 21:03:34 | raptor | i'll wait |
| 21:03:38 | watusimoto | if so, just write it down in a text that you can paste later |
| 21:03:39 | raptor | i have another solution i just found |
| 21:03:40 | watusimoto | easy! |
| 21:03:45 | raptor | ok :) |
| 21:03:50 | watusimoto | pretend you are live chatting! |
| 21:03:53 | watusimoto | bye! |
| 21:03:57 | raptor | bye! |
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| 21:28:32 | Watusimoto | hi, back, you can paste your text! |
| 21:28:37 | raptor | oh hello |
| 21:28:42 | raptor | back so soon... |
| 21:29:05 | Watusimoto | speedy gonzales! |
| 21:29:16 | raptor | ok, so for solution #3 above (not creating static archives and just linking in the object files in the end) |
| 21:29:40 | raptor | since cmake 2.8.8, there is the option to create an OBJECT library |
| 21:30:11 | raptor | what this is is basically just a collection of object files not linked together, but doesn't need to be recompiled again for each project that contains it |
| 21:31:04 | raptor | so the OBJECT library is basically just a list of object files appended in the final link of a binary, instead of linking to a static archive like .a or a .lib |
| 21:31:56 | raptor | this seems perfectly ideal for what we want to do, the only problem is that cmake 2.8.8 isn't found on a lot of older linux distros |
| 21:32:29 | raptor | it also means we don't need to have the added complexity for solution #2 with the extra linker flags |
| 21:33:06 | raptor | I hope you've been able to follow my explanations of the problem and solutions OK |
| 21:35:32 | Watusimoto | yes |
| 21:35:34 | Watusimoto | I have |
| 21:35:46 | Watusimoto | I was just trying to explain them to my younger son, but I have given up |
| 21:36:16 | | fordcars has joined |
| 21:36:29 | Watusimoto | so option 4 would be the clear winner if we could use cmake 2.8.8 |
| 21:36:35 | raptor | oh yes |
| 21:36:38 | Watusimoto | is that right? |
| 21:36:44 | raptor | and we can on windowx and osx |
| 21:36:45 | Watusimoto | but we can't depend on 2.8.8 |
| 21:36:50 | raptor | well... |
| 21:37:12 | raptor | let me see when that was released |
| 21:37:14 | Watusimoto | is the object library a .o or a .so file? |
| 21:37:33 | raptor | it's a list of .o files or .obj (windows) |
| 21:37:42 | Watusimoto | yes, ok |
| 21:37:46 | raptor | so the collection isn't actually linked together |
| 21:38:08 | raptor | cmake defers it until the end, but still let's all the projects know that it was already compiled.. so no duplicate compilation |
| 21:38:33 | Watusimoto | we need a python version of cmake we can bundle with our code |
| 21:39:36 | raptor | cmake 3.0.0 was just released |
| 21:40:00 | raptor | we already constrain to cmake 2.8 |
| 21:40:11 | Watusimoto | so why not 2.8.8? |
| 21:40:26 | raptor | centos 6 has cmake 2.8.11 |
| 21:40:43 | raptor | just a minor worry that some distros use older cmake |
| 21:40:56 | raptor | and i need to prove to myself that it is a stupid worry |
| 21:41:26 | raptor | 2.8.8 was released 18 Apr 2012 |
| 21:41:30 | Watusimoto | have you proved it? |
| 21:41:55 | Watusimoto | it would be cool to have a build system written in python; no version worries there! |
| 21:41:57 | raptor | the bigger question is: will we alienate build bitfighter on older systems by adding this requirement? |
| 21:42:10 | fordcars | Hi |
| 21:42:15 | raptor | have you heard of scons? |
| 21:42:28 | Watusimoto | apt-get cmake 2.8.9 or whatever |
| 21:42:36 | Watusimoto | hi fordcars |
| 21:42:39 | Watusimoto | no scons |
| 21:43:20 | raptor | fordcars: what version of cmake is on RPi? |
| 21:43:29 | raptor | scons would fry your cpu |
| 21:43:36 | fordcars | Uh, well now I am on Arch, but I'll check |
| 21:44:31 | fordcars | Btw building Bitfighter on ArchLinux RPi crashes |
| 21:44:40 | raptor | fordcars: is that the latest? |
| 21:44:43 | fordcars | It runs out of ram with the first file |
| 21:44:47 | fordcars | Uhm, 019c |
| 21:44:47 | raptor | because if so, yes it will crash |
| 21:44:55 | fordcars | The latest release |
| 21:44:55 | raptor | ah |
| 21:45:10 | fordcars | banList.cpp just takes forever, then runs out of ram |
| 21:45:23 | raptor | ok, that's probably because it's using a newer gcc which consumes RAM quite a bit more |
| 21:45:30 | fordcars | Possibly |
| 21:45:37 | raptor | you can limit g++, but I forget hwo |
| 21:45:39 | raptor | *how |
| 21:46:09 | fordcars | I have cmake 3.0.0 here |
| 21:46:20 | raptor | oh wow, you're bleeding edge |
| 21:46:32 | fordcars | :O |
| 21:46:36 | fordcars | It worked great though |
| 21:46:41 | fordcars | I guess :) |
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| 21:47:37 | Watusimoto | I would vote for whatever is the least painful for us; easy install on centos 6 is a bonus |
| 21:47:48 | Watusimoto | it sounds like 2.8.8 is a reasonable requirement |
| 21:48:33 | Watusimoto | I got to run again... back later |
| 21:48:44 | raptor | later |
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| 21:56:42 | sam686 | in linux ping, try: ping -i 5 -a www.bitfighter.org it will beep, ding or some kind of alert when pingable |
| 22:02:22 | fordcars | virtual memory exhausted: Cannot allocate memory |
| 22:02:59 | raptor | see here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16371939/reduce-memory-usage-in-boost-build |
| 22:03:24 | fordcars | Oh ahah |
| 22:03:29 | fordcars | wait, I don't have a swap |
| 22:03:41 | raptor | it's a problem with newer gcc + boost on RAM limited systems |
| 22:03:55 | fordcars | I actually did that |
| 22:04:08 | fordcars | I added CXXFLAGS="$(CXXFLAGS) --param ggc-min-expand=0 --param ggc-min-heapsize=8192" to the MakeFIle |
| 22:04:35 | fordcars | But I don't know if it worked |
| 22:04:42 | fordcars | I guess it did |
| 22:05:09 | fordcars | Oohhh I do have a swap, it's just small okooko |
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| 23:01:57 | raptor | ah, now I understand sam686's recent commits - they are fixes because of the PIC/static library issues in our current build system |
| 23:03:13 | raptor | also on Windows, it looks like we can't use solution #2 so we have to either use cmake 2.8.8 or go back to duplicate compiling of all the object files for each project |
| 23:04:03 | raptor | looks like debian 6 has cmake 2.8.2 |
| 23:04:25 | raptor | and centos has 2.6 by default, but we install 2.8.11 via the EPEL source |
| 23:05:24 | raptor | oh, 2.8.9 is available in debian 6 -backports |
| 23:05:27 | raptor | ok that's good |
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