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| 11:40:51 | Nothing_Much | fordcars, beware, Microsoft might actually start their "Windows as a service" bullcrap |
| 11:44:04 | Nothing_Much | so menu.ogg will cause bitfighter to be in the non-free repository? :c |
| 11:45:02 | koda | yeah it’s sad |
| 11:52:29 | Nothing_Much | where's the creator of the song? |
| 11:52:39 | Nothing_Much | did he not respond to anything? |
| 11:55:26 | Nothing_Much | ChrisNeal isn't dead, his most recent activity was January 9th |
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| 12:49:10 | Nothing_Much | Watusimoto: do you know much about the menu.ogg thing raptor's trying to tackle or something? |
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| 13:00:34 | raptor | good day! |
| 13:02:24 | koda | raptor: you made Nothing_Much sad |
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| 13:13:27 | watusimoto | Nothing_Much: the ogg issue was we do not have a clear debian-compatible license to the menu music. Our solution is to do the debian release without menu music |
| 13:18:44 | raptor | sad |
| 13:19:04 | raptor | now that my laptop is fixed-ish, i will join debian-mentors channel again... |
| 13:32:57 | watusimoto | we can surely find other menu music |
| 13:33:16 | watusimoto | something unobtrusive that can start and stop without sounding weird |
| 13:33:27 | watusimoto | there are a gazillion moody loops out there |
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| 13:59:59 | Nothing_Much | watusimoto: yeah, menu.ogg does stop abruptly |
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| 14:43:14 | raptor | I promise to commit code sometime soon... |
| 15:08:37 | watusimoto | menu.ogg loops -- so if you repeat it, it never stops |
| 15:08:42 | watusimoto | raptor: no worries |
| 15:08:51 | watusimoto | we're making progress on 020, albiet very slow |
| 15:09:22 | watusimoto | we've got a lot of residual errors left over from the refactors of last spring and summer |
| 15:09:35 | watusimoto | but it finally feels like things are settling down |
| 15:09:50 | watusimoto | I try to do something every day |
| 15:10:09 | watusimoto | and the new memory for my wife's computer, which should be arriving today, should help free up resources |
| 15:10:18 | raptor | I have several debian changes to merge - |
| 15:10:20 | watusimoto | I've asked my 12 yr old to install it |
| 15:10:30 | watusimoto | which invloves removng the laptop keyboard |
| 15:10:33 | raptor | ha, excellent |
| 15:10:38 | raptor | oh boy |
| 15:10:45 | watusimoto | so maybe we'll end up with just one computer after all is said and done! |
| 15:10:47 | raptor | i say 2 broken plastic tabs |
| 15:10:54 | watusimoto | fixable with tape |
| 15:11:02 | raptor | or epoxy! |
| 15:11:07 | watusimoto | hot glue |
| 15:11:39 | raptor | hot glue doesn't work in our house - it gets picked at, just because it's there |
| 15:11:41 | watusimoto | in all honesty, the stuff you've been doing with debian is great -- not involving lots of code work, but important and something I can't do |
| 15:12:05 | watusimoto | so I'm satisified |
| 15:12:09 | raptor | :) |
| 15:12:24 | raptor | i just try harder to contact that menu.ogg author... |
| 15:12:47 | watusimoto | or we just pick different music |
| 15:13:21 | watusimoto | though I did do some searches for "moody loops" and such and didn't turn up much |
| 15:13:44 | watusimoto | did that menu.ogg have a ND license? |
| 15:13:55 | raptor | it had no license |
| 15:14:02 | watusimoto | ah, I see |
| 15:14:12 | watusimoto | really? |
| 15:14:21 | watusimoto | I thought all those sites required one |
| 15:14:38 | raptor | the site has a license to redistribute, but says the author retains copyright |
| 15:15:13 | raptor | argh, i can't remember my looperman password |
| 15:16:25 | watusimoto | is NC ok? |
| 15:16:35 | watusimoto | http://dig.ccmixter.org/ |
| 15:18:19 | raptor | cc-by-nc-3.0 |
| 15:18:22 | raptor | let me see |
| 15:19:56 | raptor | i'd say there's a good 50% chance - i'm asking them now |
| 15:20:18 | watusimoto | actually, that site has mostly longform songs |
| 15:20:24 | watusimoto | with vocals |
| 15:20:29 | watusimoto | but good licenses |
| 15:22:38 | watusimoto | http://dig.ccmixter.org/tags/instrumental |
| 15:22:43 | watusimoto | drops of h2o might be good |
| 15:22:49 | watusimoto | prettty bland |
| 15:23:01 | raptor | oh man, i opened a can of worms asking the debian folks... back shortly |
| 15:23:29 | watusimoto | undo undo undo!!!!! |
| 15:23:40 | watusimoto | AAAAAAAABBBBBBBOOOOOORRRRRRTTTTTT!!!!!!!! |
| 15:50:15 | raptor | our conversation: http://pastie.org/private/cdmj0yknlo1o0eu57ke4dw |
| 15:50:53 | raptor | i guess it wasn't that bad... but they had me worried i had to pore through licenses |
| 15:58:02 | raptor | end result looks like NC is a no go... |
| 16:05:28 | watusimoto | ok, just so we know |
| 16:06:51 | raptor | basically, CC BY-SA-3.0 is the license we want, i think |
| 16:10:40 | watusimoto | well, look at the page I pasted above |
| 16:10:48 | watusimoto | http://dig.ccmixter.org/tags/instrumental |
| 16:11:00 | watusimoto | many are CC BY |
| 16:11:13 | watusimoto | which seems good |
| 16:11:24 | watusimoto | but some haev an option to buy a commercial license |
| 16:11:35 | watusimoto | which I don't get |
| 16:11:46 | watusimoto | seems like CC BY _is_ essentially a commercial license |
| 16:11:53 | raptor | CC-BY is considered incompatible: https://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses#Creative_Commons_Attribution_License_.28CC-by.29.2C_v1.0 |
| 16:12:58 | watusimoto | could we solve all this by having the game download music when first run? |
| 16:13:35 | raptor | heh - not sure... i've seen some special rules about downloadable content though. let me see if i can find them... |
| 16:14:37 | watusimoto | because it seems that most media we have available to us is "not free" |
| 16:15:11 | raptor | oh wait |
| 16:15:17 | raptor | CC-BY-3.0 might be OK... |
| 16:15:23 | raptor | but not 1.0 or 2.0 |
| 16:16:08 | watusimoto | another advantage of downloading is that the distro could be smaller (or have an option for smaller) |
| 16:17:48 | watusimoto | those licenses appear to be CC-BY 2.5... |
| 16:18:06 | raptor | the h2o one? it linked to 3.0 |
| 16:18:11 | watusimoto | ah. each links to a different license |
| 16:18:46 | watusimoto | so we could use H2O |
| 16:19:41 | watusimoto | the only downside is it's a lot bigger than current menu music, and has more "personality" |
| 16:19:53 | raptor | it's HUGE |
| 16:21:01 | watusimoto | well, it could be compressed down, certainly |
| 16:21:05 | watusimoto | lower bitrate and all that |
| 16:21:10 | watusimoto | ogg vs. mp3 |
| 16:21:22 | watusimoto | but it's going to be beigger than a 10-second loop |
| 16:21:53 | watusimoto | and we don't really need more than that because people don't hang out in the menus very long (hopefully) |
| 16:31:39 | raptor | CC-BY-3.0 is confirmed OK |
| 16:32:28 | watusimoto | ok... I'll make an effort tonight |
| 16:32:32 | watusimoto | to find something |
| 16:32:35 | watusimoto | again |
| 16:32:50 | watusimoto | there are tons of good samples/loops out there |
| 16:33:07 | watusimoto | they're easy to make, and are the building blocks of tons of electronica |
| 16:33:39 | raptor | 170 K is our current menu music... i wonder if a tracker would be better than ogg |
| 16:34:58 | raptor | honestly, watusimoto, i wouldn't worry about it too much - it's not time-sensitive. I expect that if 019d makes it into debian, then it'll be less-than-optimal release, but at least it's in debian |
| 16:35:28 | raptor | then we can do an 019e because there's lots of breaking for 020 left to do :) |
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| 17:22:03 | watusimoto | sigh |
| 17:26:37 | raptor | perhaps you think differently, though, and i'm willing to change my paradigm - I'm pretty much attempting to get into debian at all costs |
| 17:27:11 | raptor | so if we have to change a font or two, and exclude some music, it is an acceptable sacrifice :) |
| 17:35:38 | raptor | once we're 'in', then I think we'll have a bit more lee-way to fix things |
| 17:35:53 | raptor | e.g. back-patch in music that was appropriate licensed |
| 17:44:42 | watusimoto | I was sighing at the amount of work to get 020 back to where it was when I started |
| 17:45:01 | watusimoto | I agree about debian |
| 17:45:24 | watusimoto | once we're in, it will be harder to get us out |
| 17:45:36 | watusimoto | that will require affirmative action on someone's part |
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| 19:20:37 | raptor | heading home! |
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