#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2015-04-06

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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10:47:58 raptor good morning!
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12:57:34 Watusimoto hi bye
12:57:38 raptor hi bye
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13:26:32 raptor 'kitchens for sale' strikes again!
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14:11:51 watusimoto hi
14:11:55 raptor hi
14:32:27 raptor i think the tests ran without crashing!
14:33:35 raptor all passed!
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16:13:29 watusimoto Yes, they did!
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16:31:51 watusimoto I am all red up on shaders now... I get it.  I'm excited to start using them!
16:31:57 raptor oh goodie!
16:31:59 watusimoto sorry... "read"
16:32:13 raptor if you want to forge ahead -
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16:32:36 raptor The GLES2 class in RenderManager needs to be implemented with all the methods
16:32:55 raptor GLES1 is the normal one we use and is fully implemented
16:33:12 raptor both inherit the GL class's interface
16:34:09 watusimoto I have a general question... let's take testItems as an example.  Do we create a shader for the testItem that can generate the vertices (i.e. pass a point and a radius), or generate the points in the app as we do now?  The advantage of doing it all in-shader is that we can customize the rendering ore (i.e someone could switch to an 8-point testitem if they wanted).  The disadvnatage is that we could potentially decouple rendering from col
16:34:29 raptor no
16:34:48 watusimoto no?  which do you mean?
16:34:49 raptor i think as a first pass, you'd just need to reimplment the renderVertexArray method
16:35:34 watusimoto well, for test item, we'd need to implement a fragment or vertex shader to make the thing yellow, right?
16:35:51 raptor fragment, yes for color
16:36:10 raptor we have two code paths for this:
16:36:19 raptor in GLES1 that we use now
16:36:35 raptor 1.  glColor(); then renderVertexArray();
16:37:12 raptor you could re-implement both, the glColor will need a fragment shader, probably a default one that you just pass the color to
16:38:15 raptor the reimplementaion of renderVertexArray() may or may not need a shader - I think there is way to do it without, using:  http://docs.gl/es2/glEnableVertexAttribArray
16:38:37 watusimoto it would probably just be a passthrough function, I'd think
16:38:38 raptor that is in place of the the old glEnableClient(VERTEX_blah)
16:39:02 watusimoto ok, so were not going to be working with object-level shaders
16:39:14 raptor negatory
16:39:28 watusimoto I was under the impression that we could use shaders on all the platforms we support
16:39:33 watusimoto is that wrong?
16:39:36 raptor but we *could* abstract the data for the objects, i.e. the vertices and the colors into some loadable text file
16:39:50 raptor "on all platforms"
16:39:52 raptor not quite
16:40:07 raptor windows (even 7/8) only implmenet OpenGL 1.3
16:40:23 raptor and shaders are OpenGL 2.0
16:40:26 watusimoto I was thinking about the cool effects could create for cores using shaders to do the fancy stuff
16:40:44 raptor this means that if you want shaders on windows with opengl, you need special drivers
16:40:54 watusimoto yeah... that would suck
16:41:09 raptor which, probably most systems *do* have them installed, but not all...
16:41:35 raptor i suspect even generic Intel drivers for windows support most of OpenGL 2
16:41:57 watusimoto maybe we could (later) have special shaders for some objects that get run where supported; otherwise the fallback is what we have today
16:42:09 raptor yes
16:42:31 raptor like maybe we could do the switch at runtime instead of compile time
16:42:37 raptor based on certain things we detect
16:42:44 watusimoto I do like the idea of using shaders with the source exposed to players so they can mod and make changes in the rendering
16:42:49 watusimoto yes
16:42:52 raptor yes, i agree
16:43:20 watusimoto ok, then for now we just focus on creating shaders to support the abstractions you created
16:43:36 raptor i'd say as a first step, that would be good
16:43:58 raptor then we can determine if we want to do per-object loading of data somehow...  maybe even as Lua!
16:44:13 watusimoto lua!
16:44:28 watusimoto I wonder if anyone has written a lua->glsl translator
16:44:35 watusimoto so we could write shaders in lua
16:44:54 raptor or, just put in vertex array data with color data
16:45:00 raptor and done
16:45:50 raptor i've seen some projects where they dynamically build the glsl from the lua arrays, then compile them and feed them to the graphics card at start-up
16:48:36 watusimoto interesting... a while back, I made some changes that pregenerated geometries for some objects (like testitems), and then used gltranslate to shift them into place.  doing that in lua would hardly add to the load because it is only done once for each object type
16:53:58 raptor you've seen this game?:  http://stabyourself.net/mari0/
16:54:08 raptor entirely done in Lua via the Love framework
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17:00:08 watusimoto yikes!
17:00:19 watusimoto their not pacman game is crazy
17:00:27 raptor hahaha, yeah
17:00:41 raptor my wife got a good laugh from not-tetris
17:04:42 watusimoto yes, it is a bit nuts
17:04:52 watusimoto they like to mix the genres!
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10:47:58	raptor	good morning!
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12:57:38	raptor	hi bye
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13:26:32	raptor	'kitchens for sale' strikes again!
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14:11:51	watusimoto	hi
14:11:55	raptor	hi
14:32:27	raptor	i think the tests ran without crashing!
14:33:35	raptor	all passed!
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16:13:29	watusimoto	Yes, they did!
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16:31:51	watusimoto	I am all red up on shaders now... I get it. I'm excited to start using them!
16:31:57	raptor	oh goodie!
16:31:59	watusimoto	sorry... "read"
16:32:13	raptor	if you want to forge ahead -
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16:32:36	raptor	The GLES2 class in RenderManager needs to be implemented with all the methods
16:32:55	raptor	GLES1 is the normal one we use and is fully implemented
16:33:12	raptor	both inherit the GL class's interface
16:34:09	watusimoto	I have a general question... let's take testItems as an example. Do we create a shader for the testItem that can generate the vertices (i.e. pass a point and a radius), or generate the points in the app as we do now? The advantage of doing it all in-shader is that we can customize the rendering ore (i.e someone could switch to an 8-point testitem if they wanted). The disadvnatage is that we could potentially decouple rendering from col
16:34:29	raptor	no
16:34:48	watusimoto	no? which do you mean?
16:34:49	raptor	i think as a first pass, you'd just need to reimplment the renderVertexArray method
16:35:34	watusimoto	well, for test item, we'd need to implement a fragment or vertex shader to make the thing yellow, right?
16:35:51	raptor	fragment, yes for color
16:36:10	raptor	we have two code paths for this:
16:36:19	raptor	in GLES1 that we use now
16:36:35	raptor	1. glColor(); then renderVertexArray();
16:37:12	raptor	you could re-implement both, the glColor will need a fragment shader, probably a default one that you just pass the color to
16:38:15	raptor	the reimplementaion of renderVertexArray() may or may not need a shader - I think there is way to do it without, using: http://docs.gl/es2/glEnableVertexAttribArray
16:38:37	watusimoto	it would probably just be a passthrough function, I'd think
16:38:38	raptor	that is in place of the the old glEnableClient(VERTEX_blah)
16:39:02	watusimoto	ok, so were not going to be working with object-level shaders
16:39:14	raptor	negatory
16:39:28	watusimoto	I was under the impression that we could use shaders on all the platforms we support
16:39:33	watusimoto	is that wrong?
16:39:36	raptor	but we could abstract the data for the objects, i.e. the vertices and the colors into some loadable text file
16:39:50	raptor	"on all platforms"
16:39:52	raptor	not quite
16:40:07	raptor	windows (even 7/8) only implmenet OpenGL 1.3
16:40:23	raptor	and shaders are OpenGL 2.0
16:40:26	watusimoto	I was thinking about the cool effects could create for cores using shaders to do the fancy stuff
16:40:44	raptor	this means that if you want shaders on windows with opengl, you need special drivers
16:40:54	watusimoto	yeah... that would suck
16:41:09	raptor	which, probably most systems do have them installed, but not all...
16:41:35	raptor	i suspect even generic Intel drivers for windows support most of OpenGL 2
16:41:57	watusimoto	maybe we could (later) have special shaders for some objects that get run where supported; otherwise the fallback is what we have today
16:42:09	raptor	yes
16:42:31	raptor	like maybe we could do the switch at runtime instead of compile time
16:42:37	raptor	based on certain things we detect
16:42:44	watusimoto	I do like the idea of using shaders with the source exposed to players so they can mod and make changes in the rendering
16:42:49	watusimoto	yes
16:42:52	raptor	yes, i agree
16:43:20	watusimoto	ok, then for now we just focus on creating shaders to support the abstractions you created
16:43:36	raptor	i'd say as a first step, that would be good
16:43:58	raptor	then we can determine if we want to do per-object loading of data somehow... maybe even as Lua!
16:44:13	watusimoto	lua!
16:44:28	watusimoto	I wonder if anyone has written a lua->glsl translator
16:44:35	watusimoto	so we could write shaders in lua
16:44:54	raptor	or, just put in vertex array data with color data
16:45:00	raptor	and done
16:45:50	raptor	i've seen some projects where they dynamically build the glsl from the lua arrays, then compile them and feed them to the graphics card at start-up
16:48:36	watusimoto	interesting... a while back, I made some changes that pregenerated geometries for some objects (like testitems), and then used gltranslate to shift them into place. doing that in lua would hardly add to the load because it is only done once for each object type
16:53:58	raptor	you've seen this game?: http://stabyourself.net/mari0/
16:54:08	raptor	entirely done in Lua via the Love framework
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17:00:08	watusimoto	yikes!
17:00:19	watusimoto	their not pacman game is crazy
17:00:27	raptor	hahaha, yeah
17:00:41	raptor	my wife got a good laugh from not-tetris
17:04:42	watusimoto	yes, it is a bit nuts
17:04:52	watusimoto	they like to mix the genres!
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