BitFighter Mini Map

Why no Mini Map...pressing c sucks. You can't fight easily with c (map) on anyways, with mini-map you still can (that's why it's called a mini-map).

[karamazovapy]

I really like the c-map for what it does. (Try equipping enhanced sensor and pressing c!) Still, the idea of a minimap or radar has come up in the past. How do you think it should work?

Um...like all mini-maps.... ....ummmmm

Let's see....a square on either the left or right corner that is transparent. It is customizable, too, just to make it hard. It shows a part of the map around you. Dots are ships or bots. Their color represents the color of their teams, like orange dot for orange team (the team that is the color orange). It's basically a miniature map on the corner of your screen that is transparent (for example 50-75%, that's why I said customizable).

[Little_Apple]

No mini map is needed or wanted.

[sam686]

Mini Map might be useful when using Spybugs. Why view the whole map just to see what the spybug see? Mini map might also be useful to see what your team see.

Note that spybug can see ships with flags with arrow pointer, but there is no way to know if the enemy ship (without flag) is in your spybug area until you view the whole map to see it.

[ZoombeR]

I think a simplified minimap option should be enabled. One that just shows you, and your position in the map. It should be small, in the corner, and no helpfull hints of where stuff is. Teleports maybe, barriers a must. Thats all.

[watusimoto]

I actually coded a kind of crappy minimap when I first started working on bf, and the code is still in there somewhere. It didn't turn out to be nearly as cool as I had thought it would be.

There are some changes to sensor in the next release that will give you a better view with no expenditure of energy. That might give you some of what you want in a minimap.

I actually coded a kind of crappy minimap when I first started working on bf, and the code is still in there somewhere. It didn't turn out to be nearly as cool as I had thought it would be.

There are some changes to sensor in the next release that will give you a better view with no expenditure of energy. That might give you some of what you want in a minimap.

But it takes up as being a module...mini map I want
If it's transparent and works like the "c" map but in a smaller scale, it's legit.

[karamazovapy]

Why should you always be able to see everything without sacrificing anything?

[sam686]

Why should you always be able to see everything without sacrificing anything?

It uses up a module space of what could otherwise be shield or boost or cloak or any module. Though i think using a module space for this is a bad idea.

For big levels, I seem to want some 3D view more then mini map or zoom out (press C) map in Bitfighter, as I can see walls far away in front of me, while still being able to see things big near me.

[karamazovapy]

That didn't answer my question.

The mini map doesn't let you see everything.
(but a question I anticipated)

It's designed to be like a small atlas or small map. It doesn't show the whole area, "c" map has that purpose. Mini map doesn't require pressing a button and allows to see your full area of sight. My whole screen doesn't show my whole view (area of sight) in the game. Mini map is made to fix this issue. ("c" map shows your whole area of sight as well) "c" map doesn't show bullets, so fighting while having "c" map on is a disadvantage. Mini map fixes this issue as well.

Mini map is a smaller scale of a map ( "c" map in this case of BF) or it's a map that shows your whole radius of sight.

[Skybax]

There was actually this one ZC map where if I played in cmap the whole time I beat everyone. It was weird.

[karamazovapy]

Knowing your ZC routes can be very useful.

There was actually this one ZC map where if I played in cmap the whole time I beat everyone. It was weird.

Well with C map you can't see your own bullets, so the map was probably kinda small?

[karamazovapy]

You can if you have enhanced sensor in your loadout...

You can if you have enhanced sensor in your loadout...

_k it's a module did you read the previous posts?
Your arguments are going into circles. Why you wasting your effort like this?

[karamazovapy]

I don't think you follow.

You said you couldn't see bullets on the c-map.

You can see bullets on the c-map if you have enhanced sensor.

I don't think you follow.

You said you couldn't see bullets on the c-map.

You can see bullets on the c-map if you have enhanced sensor.

But it takes up the space of being a module (just like sam686 said). Mini map doesn't. Plus your ship is smaller and bullets are smaller (within the same area on the screen), so the aiming would be different.

[karamazovapy]

I wasn't arguing that at all.

I was just pointing out that it's possible to see your projectiles on the commander's map if you want to.

[Skybax]

There was actually this one ZC map where if I played in cmap the whole time I beat everyone. It was weird.

Well with C map you can't see your own bullets, so the map was probably kinda small?

No actually it was rather large. I just was able to see my enemies before they could see me, because cmap increases the view. I could cloak and ambush them easilyer.

[watusimoto]

Hmmm... this last post is very interesting. In 016, it may be that sensor + cloak becomes a powerful combination for just this reason. Sensor will give you longer distance viewing for no cost, so you can see your enemies before they see you and give you time to turn on your cloak in order to set up an ambush.

I'll be watching how this plays out...

Hmmm... this last post is very interesting. In 016, it may be that sensor + cloak becomes a powerful combination for just this reason. Sensor will give you longer distance viewing for no cost, so you can see your enemies before they see you and give you time to turn on your cloak in order to set up an ambush.

I'll be watching how this plays out...

Honestly we need another powerful combination besides shield+turbo, even-though I dislike sensor. Repair+shield is legit for defending/supporting a base. Sensor+cloak isn't powerful in 1vs1, but would be powerful in ganks/sneak stabs/assassinations. This is needed in the game I think.

[sam686]

I just was able to see my enemies before they could see me, because cmap increases the view. I could cloak and ambush them easilyer.

Maybe fix "c-map increases the view", as i can see enemy ships a little bit off the screen.

If I see any enemy cloak, I might as well use sensor to see and defeat enemies that use cloak.

I just was able to see my enemies before they could see me, because cmap increases the view. I could cloak and ambush them easilyer.

Maybe fix "c-map increases the view", as i can see enemy ships a little bit off the screen.

If I see any enemy cloak, I might as well use sensor to see and defeat enemies that use cloak.

When zap was made, I think "they" made senser to counter cloak. That's like the only one module that counters a module. I can kill cloaked enemies by just shooting where I think they will move to. The only problem is I have to see the enemy cloak himself; with sensor the enemy can make sure I didn't see him before he is cloaked.

[karamazovapy]

I suppose developing a paper-rock-scissors dynamic is worth discussing, but that's for another thread.

Actually, a cloaked ship isn't totally invisible. When a ship is cloaked, the lines which make up the ship, go above the stars seen in the background. So if you look hard enough, you can partially see the stars "flicker". For some reson, I can't help but think that the developers had Star Trek 6 in mind when they developed cloak.

[sam686]

When zap was made, I think "they" made senser to counter cloak. That's like the only one module that counters something.

Shield counters most weapons.

When I start to see enemy that use cloak, I would use sensor module.

As for mini map, how much should be shown, with adjustable zoom?

When zap was made, I think "they" made senser to counter cloak. That's like the only one module that counters something.

Shield counters most weapons.

When I start to see enemy that use cloak, I would use sensor module.

As for mini map, how much should be shown, with adjustable zoom?

I meant to say that sensor is the only one module that counters another module. Shield is op because it counters most weapons (maybe even all).

I think I said on a previous post that the mini map only shows the boundaries of your area/radius of sight. Not further than that. I don't want a mini map to show the whole dang map. Also, I don't think it should have zoom, but yall can have that if yall wanna, I honestly don't care because it requires more work of programming. I guess if you zoom-in the minimum is up to the picture of your ship?

[ZoombeR]

When zap was made, I think "they" made senser to counter cloak. That's like the only one module that counters something.

Shield counters most weapons.

When I start to see enemy that use cloak, I would use sensor module.

shield counters ALL weapons.

you see the enemy using cloak because you watch for glitchy stars disappearing and making the whole module useless whenever played with you, because you can always see players.

[Skybax]

If I see someone cloak, my need for a sensor would disappear, because as a cloaker myself, I can usually predict where they will be headed, and zap them. I would only ever use a cloak to see my enemy before they see me.
And it doesn't help that I play with all the sounds muted.

If I see someone cloak, my need for a sensor would disappear, because as a cloaker myself, I can usually predict where they will be headed, and zap them. I would only ever use a cloak to see my enemy before they see me.
And it doesn't help that I play with all the sounds muted.

This requires focus and should maybe be "fixed" with the stars issue. The sensor is going to have no cost, so using bouncers/phaser to "snipe" enemies would be easy and the "main way of fighting". Then when an enemy is close, you can cloak to sneak up on them or run away. Really it makes you become a sniper/cloaker. I kinda like this combination, but shield+turbo is still THA BESTA.

I think a mini-map could benefit Bitfighter, but it should have a different purpose than the Commander's map. It should be used for navigation, so you don't have to constantly stop and check the Commander's map to figure out how to get to where you want to go. It shouldn't however, be as powerful as the Commander's map. It doesn't need to show spybugs or enemy players, although I do think it'd be cool if it showed friendly ships, perhaps in the form of a colored dot.

We could take dots a bit further, with the color of the dots varying depending on health. A green dot if that ship has full or nearly full health, yellow for medium health, red for little health. Then there could also be a square or triangle if a ship has a flag/ball. Even if we don't get a mini-map, I'd still like to see that sort of thing in the Commander's map.

Whatever happens, a mini-map should NOT be a module. It should be a game feature, available to all players I think.

I think a mini-map could benefit Bitfighter, but it should have a different purpose than the Commander's map. It should be used for navigation, so you don't have to constantly stop and check the Commander's map to figure out how to get to where you want to go. It shouldn't however, be as powerful as the Commander's map. It doesn't need to show spybugs or enemy players, although I do think it'd be cool if it showed friendly ships, perhaps in the form of a colored dot.

We could take dots a bit further, with the color of the dots varying depending on health. A green dot if that ship has full or nearly full health, yellow for medium health, red for little health. Then there could also be a square or triangle if a ship has a flag/ball. Even if we don't get a mini-map, I'd still like to see that sort of thing in the Commander's map.

Whatever happens, a mini-map should NOT be a module. It should be a game feature, available to all players I think.

I agree the mini map should be used for navigation like most other games. However, I think the dots should have different colors depending on what team they are on. It should be a game feature and not a module.

P.S. I feel like I'm repeating myself are people reading previous posts? It's probably just me...

[sam686]

I agree the mini map should be used for navigation like most other games. However, I think the dots should have different colors depending on what team they are on. It should be a game feature and not a module.

I think I would like a dots colored by teams instead, and maybe a triangle or some icon to indicate carrying a flag or soccer, or lots of flags in Nexus.

Yeah that seems the most useful/potential key icons/colors for a mini map. Mini maps shouldn't show how much hp an enemy has in my opinion.

[karamazovapy]

I don't want a mini map covering useful parts of the screen when I have a perfectly good commander's map.

[sam686]

I don't want a mini map covering useful parts of the screen when I have a perfectly good commander's map.

There can be an option to adjust the transparency or turn off mini map, and maybe an option to adjust the mini map size.

[karamazovapy]

The whole thing sounds totally unnecessary to me.

Few levels are big or complicated enough to actually merit a mini map. If a level is so complex you need to constantly check your relative position, I don't see how a mini map would give you enough context to be useful.

If you know how to use the command map properly, there's no issue.

I don't want a mini map covering useful parts of the screen when I have a perfectly good commander's map.

BotFighter said :
Um...like all mini-maps.... ....ummmmm

Let's see....a square on either the left or right corner that is transparent. It is customizable, too, just to make it hard. It shows a part of the map around you. Dots are ships or bots. Their color represents the color of their teams, like orange dot for orange team (the team that is the color orange). It's basically a miniature map on the corner of your screen that is transparent (for example 50-75%, that's why I said customizable).

Seriously dude this is the third post of the thread...your contradictions are leading into circles.

Also, you don't have to use it. You can turn it off. There are so many games out there that have mini maps. Even programs/software used to make pictures/graphics like Photoshop has something similar to a mini-map. Every half-second matters in a game.
Not everyone needs a map.

[karamazovapy]

If the mini map is visible - even if it's not 100% opaque - it's still obscuring the normal view of the screen.

If the mini map is visible - even if it's not 100% opaque - it's still obscuring the normal view of the screen.

Yes it is and you can still see things through it enough if it's 75% or 60%. That's your sacrifice for using the mini-map, if you don't want it then simply don't use it. There's a sacrifice for most things usually.

[sam686]

Also, you don't have to use it. You can turn it off. There are so many games out there that have mini maps. Even programs/software used to make pictures/graphics like Photoshop has something similar to a mini-map. Every half-second matters in a game.

Most games I have seen that uses mini map are 3D games, even some racing games have a mini map that looks like a whole map of small circular path, with a dot of where you are.

[karamazovapy]

Still seems like a silly thing to have by default.

I see this as continuing a trend by which instead of learning to play the game as it's currently designed, you're more interested in tailoring it to suit your personal preferences.

I would see the mini map as more of a distraction then a tool. If every half-second really does matter, like BotFighter said, then you would be far too focused on the enemy then knowing the layout of the level. However, depending on how the mini map is used, it might be helpful for much larger levels.

Still seems like a silly thing to have by default.

I see this as continuing a trend by which instead of learning to play the game as it's currently designed, you're more interested in tailoring it to suit your personal preferences.

It's not like it assists the player a ton. Also, the current design of anything can be improved. The mini map isn't useless and isn't op or too useful in any way. It's in the middle, the "good zone".

I agree the mini map should be used for navigation like most other games. However, I think the dots should have different colors depending on what team they are on. It should be a game feature and not a module.

I think I would like a dots colored by teams instead, and maybe a triangle or some icon to indicate carrying a flag or soccer, or lots of flags in Nexus.

Aha! That's actually a really good use for the mini-map. I must admit that listing navigation as the reason for implementing a mini-map is kind of pitiful. But there's an idea -- showing enemy positions, even if they only appear for a few seconds when they pass by your teammates.

With the Commander's map, you can't reasonably expect to survive for long with it open, so you have to stop and go. And thus determining real-time enemy positions can be a challenge.

What about, instead of a generic "mini-map", we implemented some kind of "enemy monitor". It would actively update in real-time with last-known positions of enemies. It would gather this data from friendlies passing nearby enemies and spy bugs.

The difference is it would only show enemy positions. It wouldn't show friendly positions because that would not be its purpose.

edit: ... Okay, so after thinking about that for a few minutes, it's kind of stupid but it does something that the Commander's map can't do (as well).

I think my idea of labeling health on team ships could still work, but maybe as flashing dots instead. No flashing or slow flashing means the ship is healthy, fast flashing means it needs health desperately.

[watusimoto]

No flashing or slow flashing means the ship is healthy, fast flashing means it needs health desperately.

I like this idea

[karamazovapy]

Why would your ship have more detailed information about enemies than allies?

Well, my original thought process was that we wouldn't be designing a Mini-Map, rather a feature with a completely different purpose -- Enemy Monitor. I was trying to come up with an unique idea that wouldn't make the game too easy.

But I soon came to the conclusion that without friendlies visible on this Enemy Monitor, you wouldn't know if a teammate was going after an enemy or not, and thus it wouldn't be very effective.