#bitfighter IRC Log

IRC Log for 2015-03-18

Timestamps are in GMT/BST.

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00:25:45 Nothing_Much woo!
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12:05:51 raptor good morning!
12:11:36 raptor friday the 13th, pi day, ides of march,..., st patrick's day
12:11:48 raptor 4 pseudo-holidays in 5 days
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13:29:58 watusimoto1 ha, true
13:30:11 watusimoto1 pseudo may be a bit overstating it
13:30:17 raptor yup
13:30:17 watusimoto1 is now known as watusimoto
13:30:45 watusimoto I got myself into a real pickle last night... trying to make ogconsole be a non-static
13:31:03 watusimoto I think I'll have to globally retreat and look for another way
13:31:11 watusimoto sorry... globally revert
13:31:29 watusimoto though I've frequently thought a good alternat name for revert would be retreat
13:31:40 raptor shoudl we kill ogl console?
13:32:04 raptor it's already not GLES1 compliant. I have to ifdef it out when compiling for mobile
13:40:08 watusimoto I think we should kill it when we get a replacement
13:40:13 watusimoto the console itself is pretty enat
13:40:23 watusimoto but I definitely want to get a new one
13:40:48 raptor yeah...
13:40:54 watusimoto but the design problem of how to make it non-static would still exist
13:41:07 raptor have it use our FontStash system instead
13:41:12 watusimoto yes
13:41:24 watusimoto it probably wouldn't be too hard to recreate
13:41:40 watusimoto after all, it just shows text, accepts input, and needs to scroll a bit
13:41:47 watusimoto this is CS 101 level work
13:42:00 watusimoto but it's not terribly fun to do
13:42:52 raptor not fun...  exactly
14:01:44 watusimoto no
14:01:56 watusimoto I had to write a text editor for a CS class in high school
14:02:03 watusimoto I never could get word-wrap working right
14:02:21 watusimoto so I'm a bit frightened of it
14:03:52 raptor our word wrap code...
14:04:21 raptor sam686, kaen, you, and I have all worked on it - and it feels like some of the hackiest code i've ever written
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15:38:55 watusimoto well,
15:39:04 watusimoto well, you started with a rather shaky foundation
15:48:20 watusimoto here is some C++ code for managing a Lua console
15:48:31 watusimoto it looks at first glance like what we want
15:48:46 watusimoto even if we didn't use it, it shows that the code need not be humongous
15:48:47 watusimoto http://soulride.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/soulride/soulride/src/console.cpp?revision=1.3&view=markup
15:51:30 raptor that's much cleaner!
15:51:39 watusimoto displays output, allows running of lua commands
15:51:45 raptor not GLES1 compatible either, but looks much easier to convert, too
15:52:09 watusimoto it at least seems like a more manageable task than fixing oglconsole
15:52:56 raptor yeah, i agree
15:53:39 watusimoto if you have write access to the code, could you put that link in the header of console.h or.cpp so we can find it again?
15:55:23 raptor sure...  do you not, at the moment?
15:55:29 watusimoto no
15:55:53 raptor ok
15:55:56 watusimoto I have no (bitfighter) code here
15:56:57 watusimoto I'll have to look tonight to see why oglconsole is so huge by comparison
15:58:09 raptor it's because of the bitmap font
15:58:15 raptor it's one giant static array
15:58:17 BFLogBot Commit: 831fe50f09 | Author: buckyballreaction | Message: Add note about possible replacement to oglconsole
15:58:26 watusimoto That can't be all of it
15:58:36 watusimoto the logic is much more... diffuse... as well, no?
15:58:42 raptor yes
16:00:01 raptor take a look at ConsoleFont.c
16:00:29 raptor here:  https://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/source/browse/zap/ConsoleFont.c
16:00:44 raptor i'd say it's mostly the font  :)
16:01:24 raptor at 49,153 bytes
16:02:30 watusimoto Since you like numbers...
16:02:31 watusimoto https://www.youtube.com/user/numberphile
16:02:47 watusimoto that's a lot of pi!
16:02:59 watusimoto I saw the presenter at a book signing here in Portland
16:05:36 raptor half-tau!
16:05:52 raptor i actually memorized about 80 or so digits in 7th or 8th grade
16:06:00 watusimoto wow
16:06:02 raptor ... since I like numbers
16:06:14 raptor I was supposed to be a math major
16:06:29 watusimoto luckily you dodged that bullet
16:06:33 raptor phoew...  yeah
16:06:57 watusimoto you'd be a NSA drone, decoding iPhone "encryption"
16:07:07 watusimoto for people accused of speeding
16:07:22 raptor decoding!  ha!  it'd be broken at installation!
16:07:37 raptor Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
16:07:37 watusimoto decoded = rot13(apple_encoded)
16:11:04 raptor has joined
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16:11:30 watusimoto Since you missed my joke:
16:11:30 watusimoto decoded = rot13(apple_encoded)
16:11:41 raptor haha
16:11:50 raptor (i clicked on your video and my machine crashed)
16:12:36 watusimoto oops
16:12:38 raptor argh, i lost my recent work code...
16:15:21 raptor Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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16:17:30 raptor yeah...  i can't seem to watch that video - viewing it with html5 instead of flash also crashed my computer
16:22:35 watusimoto wow
16:22:52 watusimoto well, they printed out pi to a million digits and showed how long it is
16:23:23 raptor i saw the airport runway
16:23:30 raptor and it doesn't end!
16:23:40 raptor pie, that ie
16:23:42 raptor *is
16:24:08 watusimoto I keep thinking it should be possible to create a number system that is base pi, so pi would not be irrational
16:24:35 raptor i saw a study once that looked for repeats
16:24:53 watusimoto if you look long enough... you'll find anything
16:27:58 raptor this is interesting:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feynman_point
16:28:29 watusimoto that was in the video
16:28:38 raptor ah, cool
16:28:53 watusimoto along with lots of other very important information
16:29:13 raptor ok fine, i'll use youtube-dl
16:29:31 watusimoto it's probably not worth a huge effort
16:31:01 raptor youtube-dl is great - it's how we get all of our old sesame street videos (then I merge the parts, if necessary)
16:31:32 Nothing_Much raptor: youtube uses html5 by default nowadays
16:31:40 Nothing_Much unless you're downloading for other reasons
16:31:42 watusimoto I've never used it
16:32:20 raptor browsers will default to flash if it is installed
16:32:29 Nothing_Much ouch
16:32:32 Nothing_Much that's bad
16:32:37 raptor and most youtube videos have different resolutions with flash, but not with html5
16:32:40 Nothing_Much because every Windows PC comes with Flash preinstalled :(
16:32:48 Nothing_Much raptor: try using Chromium or Chrome
16:32:57 Nothing_Much because Firefox has problems with HTML5 at 1080p and 480p
16:33:03 raptor still have the resolution problem
16:33:04 Nothing_Much it's weird
16:33:10 Nothing_Much not with Chromium
16:33:13 raptor oh?
16:33:31 raptor every video i've ever played in firefox+html5 only had 360p
16:33:43 Nothing_Much Chrome and even Chromiium use some weird sorta HTML5 DRM implementation
16:33:53 Nothing_Much which allows 1080p as well as 60fps
16:33:57 Watusimoto_ Quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
16:34:04 Nothing_Much but that's only a problem on Linux with Fx and HTML5
16:34:09 watusimoto cool -- a python app!
16:34:27 Nothing_Much because Mozilla is extremely reluctant to making a DRM implementation of HTML5 video
16:34:29 raptor watusimoto: it also lets you extract the audio on-the-fly, if that's all you want :)
16:34:42 Nothing_Much but they're doing it anyways in order to compete with Chrome
16:34:47 watusimoto nice.. I'l play with it tonight
16:34:57 Nothing_Much btw, Chrome actually beat Internet Explorer as the most used web browser in the world
16:35:02 Nothing_Much and thank goodness for that
16:35:05 raptor hooray!
16:35:09 watusimoto i.e. is being discontinued
16:35:17 raptor internet exploiter!
16:35:23 watusimoto it won't be included with win10
16:35:30 raptor oh wow
16:35:32 raptor that's...
16:35:38 Nothing_Much the "new" IE might still be as bad as old IE
16:35:39 raptor there's gotta be a replacement, though?
16:35:40 watusimoto ms has a new browser
16:35:44 Nothing_Much yeah
16:35:47 Nothing_Much i read about that
16:35:50 Nothing_Much but if it's Windows only
16:35:51 watusimoto yes, it will be better
16:35:56 Nothing_Much then there's no reason to use it anyways
16:36:10 watusimoto it may be multiplatform
16:36:16 Nothing_Much especially if it has backwards compatibility with IE6
16:36:19 Nothing_Much which is REALLY bad
16:36:58 watusimoto think positive
16:37:39 Nothing_Much every time I try to think positive about Microsoft, it gives me an aneurysm
16:37:50 Nothing_Much I'm still waiting for cross-platform .NET framework games
16:38:04 raptor in the business world, backwards compatibility with ie6 is very important
16:38:19 Nothing_Much it's time for an upgrade!
16:38:29 watusimoto I think there will be a backwards-compatible viewer, but it will be a separate program
16:38:36 watusimoto ie will live on in that viewer
16:38:58 Nothing_Much and that's a good reason to avoid that browser
16:40:43 Nothing_Much still, i'm waiting for non-server-side .NET games to come to Linux and Mac, but people have been telling me up and down and all around all different things about .NET and what's happening
16:40:58 Nothing_Much "it's only server side things, it won't do anything for games"
16:41:12 raptor Nothing_Much: look no further:  http://www.openra.net/
16:41:27 Nothing_Much "it's the entire .NET framework, it will help games developed using .NET come to mac and Linux!"
16:41:30 raptor it's written in C# and runs on mono
16:41:31 watusimoto also there's vivaldi, a new browser from the creator of opera
16:41:45 koda Quit (Quit: koda)
16:41:46 Nothing_Much raptor: yes, but that's Mono, and not Microsoft .NET
16:41:51 raptor doesn't matter
16:42:03 watusimoto I agree... if it works, it works
16:42:05 raptor mono is a .NET implementation
16:42:28 Nothing_Much that's correct, before .NET was announced to be open sourced, GNOME devs decided to make Mono
16:42:44 Nothing_Much and therefore have more features, but slower, according to one of my friends
16:42:47 raptor yes, and either one of two things will happen (maybe both?):
16:43:04 raptor 1.  a new .NET implementation will arrive on Linux;  and/or:
16:43:24 raptor 2.  mono will incorporate the code changes from the open source .NET
16:43:28 watusimoto m
16:43:32 watusimoto my money is on #1
16:43:43 Nothing_Much I think I heard Microsoft was going to merge Mono into .NET or something
16:43:47 Nothing_Much but I'm unsure
16:43:53 raptor that would be #2
16:43:58 raptor i have no idea honestly
16:44:10 Nothing_Much yeah, therefore I'm still waiting and still sceptical about what they're going to do
16:44:20 Nothing_Much most of the news I'm hearing from Google+ is mostly server side stuff
16:44:24 raptor i guess technically, a #3 would be:  they merge and call it something different!
16:44:25 Nothing_Much which I REALLY don't care for
16:45:01 Nothing_Much Steven Vaughan-Nichols says Microsoft is an "open source company", I think that's just crazy talk at this point
16:45:20 Nothing_Much just because they use open source doesn't mean they are open source, kinda like Red Hat, to an extent
16:48:28 Nothing_Much oh okay
16:48:41 Nothing_Much okay so Project Spartan is still Microsoft only
16:48:49 Nothing_Much http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_browser_rendering_engine
16:48:54 Nothing_Much "Edge HTML"
16:49:33 raptor Spartan!
16:49:38 raptor interesting engine name
16:49:49 Nothing_Much yeah, still Microsoft only
16:50:07 Nothing_Much not impressed so far
16:50:16 Nothing_Much but it's still in development so.. we'll see
16:51:58 Nothing_Much as soon as there's another Microsoft product on Linux then I'll try to start caring; anyways, what's up with 020?
16:53:18 Nothing_Much are you guys still on track with Debian as well? o.o
16:55:50 raptor debian, ugh
16:56:07 raptor my e-mails have not been responded to
16:56:10 raptor i need to follow up
16:58:34 Nothing_Much raptor: oh darn
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These logs were automatically created by BFLogBot on irc.freenode.net.

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00:25:45	Nothing_Much	woo!
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12:05:51	raptor	good morning!
12:11:36	raptor	friday the 13th, pi day, ides of march,..., st patrick's day
12:11:48	raptor	4 pseudo-holidays in 5 days
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13:29:58	watusimoto1	ha, true
13:30:11	watusimoto1	pseudo may be a bit overstating it
13:30:17	raptor	yup
13:30:17		watusimoto1 is now known as watusimoto
13:30:45	watusimoto	I got myself into a real pickle last night... trying to make ogconsole be a non-static
13:31:03	watusimoto	I think I'll have to globally retreat and look for another way
13:31:11	watusimoto	sorry... globally revert
13:31:29	watusimoto	though I've frequently thought a good alternat name for revert would be retreat
13:31:40	raptor	shoudl we kill ogl console?
13:32:04	raptor	it's already not GLES1 compliant. I have to ifdef it out when compiling for mobile
13:40:08	watusimoto	I think we should kill it when we get a replacement
13:40:13	watusimoto	the console itself is pretty enat
13:40:23	watusimoto	but I definitely want to get a new one
13:40:48	raptor	yeah...
13:40:54	watusimoto	but the design problem of how to make it non-static would still exist
13:41:07	raptor	have it use our FontStash system instead
13:41:12	watusimoto	yes
13:41:24	watusimoto	it probably wouldn't be too hard to recreate
13:41:40	watusimoto	after all, it just shows text, accepts input, and needs to scroll a bit
13:41:47	watusimoto	this is CS 101 level work
13:42:00	watusimoto	but it's not terribly fun to do
13:42:52	raptor	not fun... exactly
14:01:44	watusimoto	no
14:01:56	watusimoto	I had to write a text editor for a CS class in high school
14:02:03	watusimoto	I never could get word-wrap working right
14:02:21	watusimoto	so I'm a bit frightened of it
14:03:52	raptor	our word wrap code...
14:04:21	raptor	sam686, kaen, you, and I have all worked on it - and it feels like some of the hackiest code i've ever written
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15:38:55	watusimoto	well,
15:39:04	watusimoto	well, you started with a rather shaky foundation
15:48:20	watusimoto	here is some C++ code for managing a Lua console
15:48:31	watusimoto	it looks at first glance like what we want
15:48:46	watusimoto	even if we didn't use it, it shows that the code need not be humongous
15:48:47	watusimoto	http://soulride.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/soulride/soulride/src/console.cpp?revision=1.3&view=markup
15:51:30	raptor	that's much cleaner!
15:51:39	watusimoto	displays output, allows running of lua commands
15:51:45	raptor	not GLES1 compatible either, but looks much easier to convert, too
15:52:09	watusimoto	it at least seems like a more manageable task than fixing oglconsole
15:52:56	raptor	yeah, i agree
15:53:39	watusimoto	if you have write access to the code, could you put that link in the header of console.h or.cpp so we can find it again?
15:55:23	raptor	sure... do you not, at the moment?
15:55:29	watusimoto	no
15:55:53	raptor	ok
15:55:56	watusimoto	I have no (bitfighter) code here
15:56:57	watusimoto	I'll have to look tonight to see why oglconsole is so huge by comparison
15:58:09	raptor	it's because of the bitmap font
15:58:15	raptor	it's one giant static array
15:58:17		BFLogBot Commit: 831fe50f09 \| Author: buckyballreaction \| Message: Add note about possible replacement to oglconsole
15:58:26	watusimoto	That can't be all of it
15:58:36	watusimoto	the logic is much more... diffuse... as well, no?
15:58:42	raptor	yes
16:00:01	raptor	take a look at ConsoleFont.c
16:00:29	raptor	here: https://code.google.com/p/bitfighter/source/browse/zap/ConsoleFont.c
16:00:44	raptor	i'd say it's mostly the font :)
16:01:24	raptor	at 49,153 bytes
16:02:30	watusimoto	Since you like numbers...
16:02:31	watusimoto	https://www.youtube.com/user/numberphile
16:02:47	watusimoto	that's a lot of pi!
16:02:59	watusimoto	I saw the presenter at a book signing here in Portland
16:05:36	raptor	half-tau!
16:05:52	raptor	i actually memorized about 80 or so digits in 7th or 8th grade
16:06:00	watusimoto	wow
16:06:02	raptor	... since I like numbers
16:06:14	raptor	I was supposed to be a math major
16:06:29	watusimoto	luckily you dodged that bullet
16:06:33	raptor	phoew... yeah
16:06:57	watusimoto	you'd be a NSA drone, decoding iPhone "encryption"
16:07:07	watusimoto	for people accused of speeding
16:07:22	raptor	decoding! ha! it'd be broken at installation!
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16:07:37	watusimoto	decoded = rot13(apple_encoded)
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16:11:30	watusimoto	Since you missed my joke:
16:11:30	watusimoto	decoded = rot13(apple_encoded)
16:11:41	raptor	haha
16:11:50	raptor	(i clicked on your video and my machine crashed)
16:12:36	watusimoto	oops
16:12:38	raptor	argh, i lost my recent work code...
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16:17:30	raptor	yeah... i can't seem to watch that video - viewing it with html5 instead of flash also crashed my computer
16:22:35	watusimoto	wow
16:22:52	watusimoto	well, they printed out pi to a million digits and showed how long it is
16:23:23	raptor	i saw the airport runway
16:23:30	raptor	and it doesn't end!
16:23:40	raptor	pie, that ie
16:23:42	raptor	*is
16:24:08	watusimoto	I keep thinking it should be possible to create a number system that is base pi, so pi would not be irrational
16:24:35	raptor	i saw a study once that looked for repeats
16:24:53	watusimoto	if you look long enough... you'll find anything
16:27:58	raptor	this is interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feynman_point
16:28:29	watusimoto	that was in the video
16:28:38	raptor	ah, cool
16:28:53	watusimoto	along with lots of other very important information
16:29:13	raptor	ok fine, i'll use youtube-dl
16:29:31	watusimoto	it's probably not worth a huge effort
16:31:01	raptor	youtube-dl is great - it's how we get all of our old sesame street videos (then I merge the parts, if necessary)
16:31:32	Nothing_Much	raptor: youtube uses html5 by default nowadays
16:31:40	Nothing_Much	unless you're downloading for other reasons
16:31:42	watusimoto	I've never used it
16:32:20	raptor	browsers will default to flash if it is installed
16:32:29	Nothing_Much	ouch
16:32:32	Nothing_Much	that's bad
16:32:37	raptor	and most youtube videos have different resolutions with flash, but not with html5
16:32:40	Nothing_Much	because every Windows PC comes with Flash preinstalled :(
16:32:48	Nothing_Much	raptor: try using Chromium or Chrome
16:32:57	Nothing_Much	because Firefox has problems with HTML5 at 1080p and 480p
16:33:03	raptor	still have the resolution problem
16:33:04	Nothing_Much	it's weird
16:33:10	Nothing_Much	not with Chromium
16:33:13	raptor	oh?
16:33:31	raptor	every video i've ever played in firefox+html5 only had 360p
16:33:43	Nothing_Much	Chrome and even Chromiium use some weird sorta HTML5 DRM implementation
16:33:53	Nothing_Much	which allows 1080p as well as 60fps
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16:34:04	Nothing_Much	but that's only a problem on Linux with Fx and HTML5
16:34:09	watusimoto	cool -- a python app!
16:34:27	Nothing_Much	because Mozilla is extremely reluctant to making a DRM implementation of HTML5 video
16:34:29	raptor	watusimoto: it also lets you extract the audio on-the-fly, if that's all you want :)
16:34:42	Nothing_Much	but they're doing it anyways in order to compete with Chrome
16:34:47	watusimoto	nice.. I'l play with it tonight
16:34:57	Nothing_Much	btw, Chrome actually beat Internet Explorer as the most used web browser in the world
16:35:02	Nothing_Much	and thank goodness for that
16:35:05	raptor	hooray!
16:35:09	watusimoto	i.e. is being discontinued
16:35:17	raptor	internet exploiter!
16:35:23	watusimoto	it won't be included with win10
16:35:30	raptor	oh wow
16:35:32	raptor	that's...
16:35:38	Nothing_Much	the "new" IE might still be as bad as old IE
16:35:39	raptor	there's gotta be a replacement, though?
16:35:40	watusimoto	ms has a new browser
16:35:44	Nothing_Much	yeah
16:35:47	Nothing_Much	i read about that
16:35:50	Nothing_Much	but if it's Windows only
16:35:51	watusimoto	yes, it will be better
16:35:56	Nothing_Much	then there's no reason to use it anyways
16:36:10	watusimoto	it may be multiplatform
16:36:16	Nothing_Much	especially if it has backwards compatibility with IE6
16:36:19	Nothing_Much	which is REALLY bad
16:36:58	watusimoto	think positive
16:37:39	Nothing_Much	every time I try to think positive about Microsoft, it gives me an aneurysm
16:37:50	Nothing_Much	I'm still waiting for cross-platform .NET framework games
16:38:04	raptor	in the business world, backwards compatibility with ie6 is very important
16:38:19	Nothing_Much	it's time for an upgrade!
16:38:29	watusimoto	I think there will be a backwards-compatible viewer, but it will be a separate program
16:38:36	watusimoto	ie will live on in that viewer
16:38:58	Nothing_Much	and that's a good reason to avoid that browser
16:40:43	Nothing_Much	still, i'm waiting for non-server-side .NET games to come to Linux and Mac, but people have been telling me up and down and all around all different things about .NET and what's happening
16:40:58	Nothing_Much	"it's only server side things, it won't do anything for games"
16:41:12	raptor	Nothing_Much: look no further: http://www.openra.net/
16:41:27	Nothing_Much	"it's the entire .NET framework, it will help games developed using .NET come to mac and Linux!"
16:41:30	raptor	it's written in C# and runs on mono
16:41:31	watusimoto	also there's vivaldi, a new browser from the creator of opera
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16:41:46	Nothing_Much	raptor: yes, but that's Mono, and not Microsoft .NET
16:41:51	raptor	doesn't matter
16:42:03	watusimoto	I agree... if it works, it works
16:42:05	raptor	mono is a .NET implementation
16:42:28	Nothing_Much	that's correct, before .NET was announced to be open sourced, GNOME devs decided to make Mono
16:42:44	Nothing_Much	and therefore have more features, but slower, according to one of my friends
16:42:47	raptor	yes, and either one of two things will happen (maybe both?):
16:43:04	raptor	1. a new .NET implementation will arrive on Linux; and/or:
16:43:24	raptor	2. mono will incorporate the code changes from the open source .NET
16:43:28	watusimoto	m
16:43:32	watusimoto	my money is on #1
16:43:43	Nothing_Much	I think I heard Microsoft was going to merge Mono into .NET or something
16:43:47	Nothing_Much	but I'm unsure
16:43:53	raptor	that would be #2
16:43:58	raptor	i have no idea honestly
16:44:10	Nothing_Much	yeah, therefore I'm still waiting and still sceptical about what they're going to do
16:44:20	Nothing_Much	most of the news I'm hearing from Google+ is mostly server side stuff
16:44:24	raptor	i guess technically, a #3 would be: they merge and call it something different!
16:44:25	Nothing_Much	which I REALLY don't care for
16:45:01	Nothing_Much	Steven Vaughan-Nichols says Microsoft is an "open source company", I think that's just crazy talk at this point
16:45:20	Nothing_Much	just because they use open source doesn't mean they are open source, kinda like Red Hat, to an extent
16:48:28	Nothing_Much	oh okay
16:48:41	Nothing_Much	okay so Project Spartan is still Microsoft only
16:48:49	Nothing_Much	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_browser_rendering_engine
16:48:54	Nothing_Much	"Edge HTML"
16:49:33	raptor	Spartan!
16:49:38	raptor	interesting engine name
16:49:49	Nothing_Much	yeah, still Microsoft only
16:50:07	Nothing_Much	not impressed so far
16:50:16	Nothing_Much	but it's still in development so.. we'll see
16:51:58	Nothing_Much	as soon as there's another Microsoft product on Linux then I'll try to start caring; anyways, what's up with 020?
16:53:18	Nothing_Much	are you guys still on track with Debian as well? o.o
16:55:50	raptor	debian, ugh
16:56:07	raptor	my e-mails have not been responded to
16:56:10	raptor	i need to follow up
16:58:34	Nothing_Much	raptor: oh darn
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